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pickerel tank

Started by Guest_Danyal_* , Feb 20 2009 01:09 PM

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23 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_Danyal_*

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 01:09 PM

anybody know if there are smaller species of pickerel than the grass and redfin pickerel availible? i recently moved and broke down all but 2 of the 8 aquariums i had, and am in the process of taking down the others, however today i was looking at my 29g and picturing a jungle of driftwood and vals and was thinking that it would be a perfect grow out tank for a small esox. i've never kept pickerel before, and my experience with predatory fish has been limited to a Butis butis, Lepomis cyanellus, Ictalurus punctatus, a few puffer species, a couple gobies and a Hemibagrus wyckioides, so any tips would be helpful. how fast do they grow, how easily can they be weaned off of feeders(i'm planning to breed gambusia in the sump) what are their captive habits?

Edited by Danyal, 20 February 2009 - 01:12 PM.

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#2 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 02:09 PM

E. americanus is the smallest Esox. However, the mudminnows (Umbra) are related and similar in habits and disposition, but smaller. That tank would be great for a few of them.

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#3 Guest_Danyal_*

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 05:20 PM

are there any attractive looking ones? most of the mudminnows i've seen pictures of where not very attractive at all.

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#4 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:25 PM

None of the umbrids are flashy, except for the grayling (and good luck finding one of those). They're all nicely patterned though, much like the Esox species, just brown instead of green. Not sure what pictures you've been looking at, can't say if they're representative or not.

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#5 Guest_lepatron_*

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 10:38 PM

if you want a fish that looks and behaves like pickerel, but you dont want the size of one, pike livebearers are a good option.
the scientific name is Belonesox belizanus

Edited by lepatron, 22 February 2009 - 10:38 PM.

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#6 Guest_Danyal_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 01:09 AM

somebody recomended those to me on another forum, i don't mind that pickerel would get too big for tank, i was really curious about if there were smaller ones because the sites i found only listed 4 species of esox(musky, northern, grass/redfin and chain) but they were sites moslty concerned with game fish, so i wasn't sure if there would be smaller ones that wouldn't be considered gamefish because of their size. graylings are gorgeous fish, if i had a much larger tank(500g or so) and a massive chiller i would be very tempted by graylings.

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#7 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 02:43 PM

somebody recomended those to me on another forum, i don't mind that pickerel would get too big for tank, i was really curious about if there were smaller ones because the sites i found only listed 4 species of esox(musky, northern, grass/redfin and chain) but they were sites moslty concerned with game fish, so i wasn't sure if there would be smaller ones that wouldn't be considered gamefish because of their size. graylings are gorgeous fish, if i had a much larger tank(500g or so) and a massive chiller i would be very tempted by graylings.

That's it for Esox except the Amur pike (E. reichertii), which is a large Asian species comparable to northern pike and musky. It would be nice if there were some miniature species, but there aren't.

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#8 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:01 PM

IMO a grass/redfin that gets to 12" tops in an aquarium is a miniature species. Once they hit 8" they tend to grow pretty slowly too from what I have read. That's how mine was.

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#9 Guest_macantley_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:51 PM

does anyone know where you can buy the pike livebearers?

matthew

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#10 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 03:52 PM

None of the umbrids are flashy, except for the grayling (and good luck finding one of those). They're all nicely patterned though, much like the Esox species, just brown instead of green. Not sure what pictures you've been looking at, can't say if they're representative or not.

Am I completely missing something? Aren't graylings Salmonids?

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#11 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:02 PM

Am I completely missing something? Aren't graylings Salmonids?

Wow, I'm an idiot. I got the wires crossed between 'Arctic grayling' and 'Alaska blackfish'. Sorry!

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#12 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 04:37 PM

Oh ok I get it now. I see how those could be confused.

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#13 Guest_bart_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:28 PM

Just a thought. Would it be possible to selectively breed esox for a miniature adult version? Is there a history of this in any north American fish?

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#14 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:46 PM

I'm sure it's "possible" but you need a pretty big population to work with. I don't have the space in MY living room

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#15 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:47 PM

It's certainly possible, but I don't think it's been done. It would be easier with something that matures quickly and is easy to breed, but most fish like that are pretty small already. It would probably be simpler to chemically stunt the fish with some kind of growth hormone inhibitor or competitor applied judiciously.

Not much financial incentive either. But if you're volunteering...

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#16 Guest_Danyal_*

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:34 AM

with enough work it would likely be possible to breed a minature(it would be awesome to see some half sized pickerels availible) however i think there would always be a good chance for random cases of ones which would get larger than they're supposed to.

does anyone know where you can buy the pike livebearers?

when in doubt, check aquabid.com, you can find anything on there eventually. i've never seen them myself but i've heard that they can be obtained occasionaly by asking at your trusty LFS

It would probably be simpler to chemically stunt the fish with some kind of growth hormone inhibitor or competitor applied judiciously.

i don't know if chemically stunting them would be healthy for the fish, if it would harm the fish at all then i wouldn't want to support it.

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#17 Guest_bart_*

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:46 AM

I think it would be harder to keep out unwanted physical attributes while essentially breeding runts. I guess that is a problem with any type of selective breeding. You could have just asked Maggie, my blind and deaf dalmatian.

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#18 Guest_Danyal_*

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 04:13 PM

yeah, breeding runts would probably result in a few unwanted traits, but i think those could be worked out after a while, just look at what we did with chiuahuas... nevermind those are an unwanted trait.

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#19 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 10:24 PM

I just figured I would mention I don't feel a 29 gallon tank is too small for a grass pickerel to spend it's entire life in. A 12 inch grass pickerel is very rare and usually 8-10" is more of a usual max size. A standard 29 is more than enough room for a pickerel to turn around in and they hardly are very active swimmers. They spend much of their time sitting motionless in the tank.

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#20 Guest_Danyal_*

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:29 AM

i guess i'd have to find out myself but i feel that most fish that size should be in something larger than a 29g, even if they have room to turn around in, the exception being eels and eel-like fish.