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Cyprinidae? Catostomidae?


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#1 Guest_Enneacanthus_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 08:22 PM

Drewish and I happened upon this fish while collecting last week and can't figure out what the little guy is

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The fish that have been identified in this location are as follows:

white sucker
torrent sucker
northern hogsucker

bluehead chub
creek chub
river chub
fallfish
central stoneroller
blacknose dace
longnose dace

That is the list of all the fish that this one could concievably be, maybe its obvious buy we just can't figure it out.
Oh yeah its lateral line was orange when we collected him but has dulled a bit in captivity.

#2 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 08:47 PM

Looks like a blacknose dace.

#3 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:01 PM

Looks like a blacknose dace.


I agree with Sandtiger. Does it have an underslung mouth or does it actually have a sucker mouth? If it is a sucker, it could be the torrent sucker. Looks like the dace though.

#4 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:20 PM

Looks like the blacknose dace I collect in winter. Nice and colored up and ready to spawn. Can actually be kind of pretty this time of year.

#5 Guest_Enneacanthus_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 09:57 PM

Drewish and I were torn between blacknose dace and torrent sucker. Other than taking him out of the tank and attempting to inspect his mouth from below is there any other feature I could look for to determine one way or the other?

Oh and I am hoping for a torrent sucker so I will be hard to convince of anything else. :-D

Maybe its a hybrid?? :shock:

#6 Guest_edbihary_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 10:09 PM

Oh and I am hoping for a torrent sucker so I will be hard to convince of anything else. :-D

Then it's a torrent sucker!

Actually, the mouth doesn't look right for sucker. My first guess before scrolling down to see the other guesses, or even your list of candidates, was blacknose dace. So I'll join that camp.


Maybe its a hybrid?? :shock:


Irate, where are you?

#7 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:12 PM

My initial ID was either longnose or blacknose dace. It didn't quite look like the other blacknose dace we've sampled or the ones I've kept in aquaria. I can't seem to find the pics of mine before they became yellow perch food.

#8 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:15 PM

It's a male, in spawning colors. I have seen many that look a lot like it. It's not a longnose that's for sure. The mouth does not look right for a sucker.

#9 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 12:58 AM

I am 100% sure it is a blacknose dace and with the rusty color it is a breeding male as sand tiger said. The distinguishing feature often used to seperate minnows from suckers is the position of the anal fin. Suckers have an anal fin much closer to the caudal fin and minnows have a much more forward positioned anal fin. This shows it is clearly a minnow. I have seen hundreds of blacknose dace, actually probably one of the first natives I kept in an aquarium when I was about 10. At the time I thought they might be baby trout because I had no clue and I only kept the ones with the red stripe. and since they were all males they fought with one another and durring their battles which involved two males circling one another the red intensified to a bright crimson red and then before your eyes it lessens. I since have kept minnow tanks and on purpose put multiple males in just so I could see this, it is fascinating behavior. They often do it after a water change. I'll add some pics of them and some longnose dace just to show them off.

ok so for example take a look at this juvenile creek chubsucker picture #3 and compare the position of the anal fin to any of the 5 minnow pictures below. Which are in this order... 1Female blacknose dace, 2pair of blacknose dace, 4breeding male blacknose dace, 5female longnose dace, and a 6male longnose dace.

#10 Guest_Enneacanthus_*

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 09:01 AM

Thanks for the ID, and upon further review (last night was the first night that he actually would swim around) and noting the location of the pelvic, anal, and dorsal fins, mouth type, and other breeding male pictures posted above, I have to regretfully concede that this is in fact a black nose dace and not a torrent sucker.

Too bad I don't have a permanent place for him, guess I will hand him over to drewish and his redfin. :twisted:

#11 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:53 PM

Were you the upper TN drainage or what would be an appalachian region? Fishes of TN notes R. obesus as a valid 'new' species speperate from the traditional blacknose dace. I first saw fish that looked like this in headwaters to the Nolichuky drainage and I was baffled. They were in even brighter red than yours was and I thought it was some blacknose stoneroller hybrid but in the end it was just that smoky mountain blacknose dace.

#12 Guest_Enneacanthus_*

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 07:02 PM

We were on a stream in the Rappahannock drainage on the east slope of the Shenandoah National Park (right outside the park). So not the TN drainage but well within the Appalachian region.




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