Here's a link to the press release from TPWD concerning the new limit on Alligator Gar (AG), legislation that is long overdue, but still too weak. It allows harvest of one AG per day, any size, for commercial and recreational fishing. I know TPWD is researching movement and spawning of AG right now, and hopefully there will be more drainage specific limits in the future once we learn more about them.

They're definitely an elusive fish... I've caught countless juvie spotted and longnose gar, but the smallest 'gator I've ever caught was about 1.5'. That's using hook and line, gill nets, seine, electrofishing... just about everything but dynamite.

http://www.tpwd.stat...e...9&nrsearch=

I'm personally beyond ecstatic that this went through.

IMO though it is not going into effect soon enough, however, the total closure on at least Lake Texoma this year is a right step (Not that they where ever common in there). Really any step is a good step seeing as Alligator gar and management, have been terms only defined by eliminating them in most cases.

It has taken forever but it is nice to finally see a real interest in Gars as part of the native community on a local, state and federal level. These are exciting days in Lepisosteid research and study!!!

These are exciting days in Lepisosteid research and study!!!

Nah!

Here's a link to the press release from TPWD concerning the new limit on Alligator Gar (AG), legislation that is long overdue, but still too weak. It allows harvest of one AG per day, any size, for commercial and recreational fishing. I know TPWD is researching movement and spawning of AG right now, and hopefully there will be more drainage specific limits in the future once we learn more about them.

They're definitely an elusive fish... I've caught countless juvie spotted and longnose gar, but the smallest 'gator I've ever caught was about 1.5'. That's using hook and line, gill nets, seine, electrofishing... just about everything but dynamite.

http://www.tpwd.stat...e...9&nrsearch=

A TURN FOR THE PLUS I WOULD SAY.
in the past texas tpwd almost killed off the gar by shocking and netting.

Thats awesome! Is the AG population that bad in TX? Or did they (state and/or fed gov) finally take preventative measures instead of waiting until a species is in deep trouble? I realize the post is a little older but I'm not here as often as I should be.

Edited by CHBGator, 12 July 2009 - 09:36 AM.

Both, it is that bad in some places, and we're trying to keep it from getting that bad in others. They're extirpated in some places, but they are doing great in the Trinity right now as long as people don't kill them off. They're also doing relatively well east of there and along the coast.

rjmtx, did you ever locate the juveniles in the Trinity River? I hear TP&W guys say often that they can't find the juveniles, or that they are very rare, or something along those lines. Part of the reason you don't catch many is that they grow so fast they don't stay small very long. Historically, there have been some protected areas where the juvenile alligator gar spent their time between fingerlings and about 20 pounds, although the two high-water years changed that some because it spread them out so much. The traditional nursery areas are still well populated with juvies, but many additional areas of the Trinity (and Sabine, too) now have large populations of two and three year old fish due to the super-spawns of those recent high water years. Those in the 30- to 40-pound range were often seen this year schooling with longnose, which was something neither I nor my fishing buddies had ever seen before, at least to that degree. Judging by what was rolling, I'd guess that some of the larger schools were 10 to 20 percent alligator gar. If you want to find nursery areas, you'll probably need an airboat. Most of them aren't accessible with an outboard.

Cheers,



Don

I've heard tell that some folks are hiring out to bow hunters for trophy fish.
$1000 a hunt is what I heard from an old source around the Trinity.

Question:

Does an air boat operator schedule a hunt and bring 5 guys, each one killing one big fish? Or, does he "Doctor Schedule" and brings out one guy, kill a big fish, brings No.2, kill a big fish, etc.



Just asking.

I'm not sure this isn't hijacking the thread to some degree, but I'll try to drag it back on topic a bit at the end. There are a handful of guides in Texas that target trophy alligator gar, and their prices vary. As I understand it, each one claims to be the best, although most of them have never taken more than three or four gar in their guiding careers. There are a couple that are truly good guides services, those that can help a client take a trophy-sized gar fairly consistently. These are the ones that are most knowledgeable about the the habits of the species, and they all have their "secrets" that aren't really well known by the general public. That doesn't mean that it's easy.

As for price, I know some charge $500 to $1000 per day, but I suppose their individual policies on keeping fish vary. One of the better-known guide services charges $2500 per three day trip for bow fishing, but guarantees a gar over 100 pounds. Once you shoot one, your $2500 trip is over. If you don't take one, they will reschedule you for another three days and let you try again. For rod and reel fishing, they charge $750 for one person, and $250 for each additional person, per day. Catch as many as you can catch, but the person or group can only keep one fish per day, total, and the rest are released.

The success of the alligator gar guides in Texas in recent years has brought a ton of publicity for gar in general and alligator gar in particular. This publicity, combined with their efforts to have the fish recognized as a legitimate trophy fish rather than a trash fish, brought pressure from several directions to have states regulate the fishery. There are now quite a few different research projects underway, addressing various aspects of the natural history of alligator gar. As Richard pointed out in another post (on a different forum), the sportsmen who utilize this resource, particularly the bowfishermen, are wholeheartedly in favor of managing the fishery and supporting the researchers who study them. They are one of the few groups (if not the only private group) who have actually contributed funding to alligator gar research. They've also supported researchers by providing otoliths for aging and tissue samples for toxicology studies. That said, not all of them have agreed with the specifics of recently enacted regulations.

I personally spoke against the new statewide regulations that TP&W implemented. However, I didn't do so without careful consideration or without fairly specific knowledge of the status of alligator gar populations in Texas, even if my knowledge was "comparative" rather than "quantitative." I'll try to give you a little background history as to why. Almost everyone I know is against commercial fishing for alligator gar. I've seen the fishermen bring out loads of thousands of pounds of alligator gar from the upper Trinity River, over and over. Year after year. They must be wiping them out, right? And yet, the upper Trinity is widely recognized as THE place for trophy alligator gar, and TP&W concedes that the alligator gar population in the upper Trinity is "at or near (or was it at or above) holding capacity." My question: is this in spite of the commercial fishing, or is it a result of commercial fishing? The healthiest deer herds are those that are selectively (and rather heavily) harvested. Could commercial fishing be an integral part of the recipe that created the best gar fishery in the world? If you know the set of circumstances that created an oustanding fishery, why would you start changing the ingredients without data to support doing so, rather than trying to duplicate such a fishery in other areas? If it could be shown that commercial fishing is detrimental rather than beneficial, and that the gar fishery would have been, or would be, even better without it, I'd immediately side with the other 99% of my friends (and all of you, most likely) in opposing it.

Some twenty-ish years ago, netting for gar and other rough fish was outlawed in Texas. Since that time, alligator gar populations in the upper Trinity have flourished, while limited commercial fishing with hooks continued. The main reason the fishing has been limited is due to the very few access points to many miles of river. Whatever the ingredients, the current populations seem to have been in balance with the food supply, and the gar are fast-growing and healthy. The wildcard in the whole situation today is the super-spawn of 2006 along with an amazing spawn the following year. The gars' food supply might not have benefitted greatly from the summer-long high water levels, but the gar did. There are a tremendous number of two to three year old fish in the river now, and growing gator gar in the 30 to 50 pound range can eat a LOT. So now, another question: if the river was already at or near holding capacity, and you add a few million more rapidly-growing fish to the mix, will the population still be in balance with the food supply? What if you completely stop the commercial fishing, and limit all others to one per day? Will this help, or will it expedite the crash of the best gar fishery in Texas, resulting in stunted and unhealthy gar populations? I don't know for sure, and neither does anyone else, because there is no data to support action either direction.

I'll go ahead and state categorically that I've never commercially fished for gar, and don't really know anyone very well that does (although I can recognize a couple of them on sight). My thought processes were not about defending commercial fishing at all. They were about protecting the gar fishery from knee-jerk reactions that might seem proper but ultimately turn out to be disastrous for the populations we all want to protect. As I told TP&W biologist Dan Bennett, I hope the guesses the department made turn out to be correct, because if they aren't, it will be several generations before populations could be rebuilt to their current status.

All this said, I realize there are probably places in Texas that should have limits, and some where gator gar harvest shouldn't be allowed at all. Some areas have undoubtedly been overfished, and most fishermen or bowfishermen could quickly identify those areas for you. If the state regulated the fishery waterbody-by-waterbody, I think there would be very, very few who opposed it. However, for the reasons I briefly stated above, I think enacting the recent regulations as they were was a dangerous move. I hope for all our sakes that they were right.

Cheers,




Don

You have some very good points Don that are well worth considering and further investigation into.

I do agree with you that the application of the new law would have been better done on a watershed specific basis and not outright state wide. The Trinity has been well know as a very stable population without much of the pressures others in the state have been experiencing. I'm still not so sure about a doomsday Gator gar plague of stunted fish though without some harvesting. Gar populations and recruitment have been shown to be cyclical. The very slow recruitment rate of the fish is also a factor that needs attention. One or two good years may very much make up for several failed years.

In all reality a key point and a key problem is the total lack of knowledge that we have about these fish. We are getting better at it and great steps have been made in just the last decade but a whole lot more needs to be done. I see the above management idea as a first step but not the last one. As more is known and understood then various aspects can be changed to reflect this. It is my understanding that this is how TP&W is viewing this. They are taking a comprehensive approach now until we can really get a good handle on how to fully manage the resource.

All this said, I realize there are probably places in Texas that should have limits, and some where gator gar harvest shouldn't be allowed at all. Some areas have undoubtedly been overfished, and most fishermen or bowfishermen could quickly identify those areas for you. If the state regulated the fishery waterbody-by-waterbody, I think there would be very, very few who opposed it. However, for the reasons I briefly stated above, I think enacting the recent regulations as they were was a dangerous move. I hope for all our sakes that they were right.

Cheers,




Don
[/quote]



Don,

That answers my question.

Thank you.
Greg

For those of you that were interested in the twice-a-year spawning habits of Texas longnose and alligator gar, the fall spawn is happening right now, in the Trinity River at least. The first rise in October didn't bring the females upriver, but the last one did.

Cheers,



Don