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Citico Creek, TN Sucker Spawning


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#1 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 03:13 PM

Howdy folks,

Just back from the great state of TN. Last year, Matt post some video of buffalo spawning in Citico Creek, a tributary of the Little Tennessee River in the Tellico Reservoir, just upstream of where the Little T joins the Tellico. Unfortunately, the video Matt post and the video I might have shot this year are absent. The url for the old video doesn't work, and it was too turbid for my camera to focus, so that was a big bunch of suck. However, we got a lot of mileage out of stills. Also got to try a dry suit on the for the first time. It was still COLD :)

Here's a photo my wife took of the fish in situ:

Attached File  01_buffalo_run.jpg   143.49KB   9 downloads

The locals are quite taken to needlessly killing the sucker. There were people snagging and bow fishing them with reports of firearms "sport" after dark, and then leaving the bodies on the shore or even across the road to rot. It's quite disgusting. So Neely and I took advantage of a couple deaths and ran as much out of those individuals as we could. We also ate the male, which the way we prepared it made simple work of removing all the crazy bones you find in their tissues. The final photo is evidence that there was some other spawning activity going on in the area. Hopefully the evidence did its job!

http://www.farmertod...fa/citicocreek/ (Some of the pictures are gorey, if you don't like dissections)

I'll post a couple more for the heckuvit, if people haven't decided yet to click through.

Attached File  02_sm_buffalo.jpg   82.88KB   5 downloads
Smallmouth Buffalo, Ictiobus bubalus

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Scale detail with tubercles

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Pharyngeal Arches after boiling off tissue

Hopefully these photos highlight the adaptations these fishes have that makes them extra special. Truly cool animals. Suckers get such a bum rap, yet their activities are facultative to so many other species. I have footage of juvenile smallmouth literally guarding feeding hogsucker from one another (like "Go get your own sucker, buddy!"), waiting for escaping prey items to fly away from the sucker and into the bass mouths. Sucker spawning also breaks out silt and detritus from gravel bedding that all the pretty minners use later in the year. To call them a "bottom feeder" is a disservice, unless one makes specific note that they are the bottom or base of many species interactions!

I feel fortunate to have had the opportunity to see this. It happens in all sorts of waterbodies, but usually those waterbodies aren't nearly as clear as this stream. I hope you enjoyed the photos!

Todd

#2 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 03:53 PM

Well, I had a nice discussion with the 7 year old about what all those innards were. Luckily he didn't know what the last picture was! I didn't explain that one. #-o

#3 Guest_andyavram_*

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 03:54 PM

I once was looking for Five-lined Skinks in my county and peeked into a hole in the side of a cliff and my nose was inches from one of those "other spawn". Nasty.

Cool pictures though and a cool site to witness.

Andy

#4 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 05:09 PM

To think scenes like this are happening right now in the Maumee River...take away 1,000 shades of brown and that river would be a site to behold. I've never seen tuberculate Smallmouth Buffalo. Awesome stuff. I did catch tuberculate White Sucker, Shorthead Redhorse, and lake-run Quillback (Eastern or Central...hmmm?). Thanks for sharing, Todd. Also, I'm signing a contract to do some sampling over at UT for the summer. Should have that taken care of next week, along with faxing in my GRE scores.

#5 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 20 April 2009 - 06:07 PM

Cool stuff! You guys are adventurous with your culinary sampling. Would you say the suckers were good to eat or just edible?
Cool observation of the bass following the suckers. I've seen smallmouth bass in small schools following big eels and snapping turtles around for the same reason.

#6 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:57 AM

Thanks guys! I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Nate - ultra cool. So you'll be employed over the summer and then starting as a student in the fall? We're gonna have a whole lotta fun :) And yeah, can you imagine what it looks like with all those walleye, drum, quillback, buffalo, redhorse and white bass moving around in that water?!? Can you imagine lake sturgeon added to the mix? With gilt, sand, river and channel darter, bigeye shiners and chubs, gravel chubs, river and hornyhead chubs, northern madtom, and harelip suckers swimming along side??? What have we done to this river? I won't even get into the mussels.

It wouldn't have ever been clear, but I don't think it was so darkly tannic that you wouldn't have been able to see the big fish spawning in the shallow riffles. Wow.

Mike - Yeah, buffalo is really fatty and oily, so it's a real "fishy" taste. It's more the primal thing to cook it over the fire, and it was available. I really want to try redhorse, but Dave is thinkin' that it's not oily enough for this kind of preparation. We'll see. I'd like to get pharyngeals and bones off each of the sucker species this year, so there'll be opportunity for it now that I have my little "grill". I need to build some kind of legs for it. We had a little bit of trouble once the wood ones caught fire lol.

As for adventuresome culinary experiences... They haven't banned "sampling" roadkill in TN yet, have they? ;)

Attached File  squirrel03sm.jpg   28.88KB   3 downloads

Todd "Why Waste a Perfectly Good Squirrel" Crail

Edited by farmertodd, 21 April 2009 - 07:59 AM.


#7 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 11:53 AM

Great pots Todd! I loved it. Man, buffalo spawning in clear water, that would be a site to see. I don't see buffalo that often, but I hope to change that in the near future!

The Middle-Fork Vermilion here in Illinois is supposed to have all three species, I just need to figure out a way to get em'. I would have to find some small ones for the photo tank ;)

Thanks,

Blake

#8 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 12:09 PM

Thanks Blake. A small bag seine should do you wonders, if you have one in the department or can talk Uland into using his :) You run them downstream through pools and runs, and you'll be amazed how many sucker were hanging out in those areas. Good luck id'ing them. They truly suffer the "spectrum disorder" we've been discussing with regards to other genera.

Todd

#9 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 21 April 2009 - 05:06 PM

Great post Todd, I especially like the photo of all the buffalo in the river. Makes me want to go looking for Moxostoma around here...... maybe after classes are done :wacko:

#10 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:09 PM

Hey Marcus! You should hook up with the robust redhorse folks and see if they need "volunteers" to watch the stations ;) Jim just sent around an email today saying the run was pretty much over, saw a pod of what he thought were silver redhorse. It's a totally ephemeral thing. I wonder if there if the river strains are more spaced out? That was pretty intense on that particular bed.

Soo.... Is John gonna let you join us fishheads at AFS this year? :)

Todd

#11 Guest_NateTessler13_*

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:08 PM

I really want to try redhorse, but Dave is thinkin' that it's not oily enough for this kind of preparation. We'll see. I'd like to get pharyngeals and bones off each of the sucker species this year, so there'll be opportunity for it now that I have my little "grill". I need to build some kind of legs for it. We had a little bit of trouble once the wood ones caught fire lol.

Todd "Why Waste a Perfectly Good Squirrel" Crail


A fishing buddy of mine was curious to try Redhorse. We kept a Shorthead from the Maumee a few weeks ago and filleted him up. Threw him in the fryer and gave it a shot...the flesh was...well, I could withstand it, however it was LOADED with bones. So, really it was a pain at best.

P.S. I just got the acceptance letter from UT today!!!

Edited by NateTessler13, 22 April 2009 - 11:09 PM.


#12 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 06:40 AM

congrats Nate that is great news!

#13 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 08:30 AM

A fishing buddy of mine was curious to try Redhorse. We kept a Shorthead from the Maumee a few weeks ago and filleted him up. Threw him in the fryer and gave it a shot...the flesh was...well, I could withstand it, however it was LOADED with bones. So, really it was a pain at best.

P.S. I just got the acceptance letter from UT today!!!


Seconds on the congrats!

It's funny how we Americans have become culturally accustomed to bone-free meats. We're missing out; a lot of the flavor is in the head and/or bones and surrounding connective tissues. Some of the best meals I've ever had included carp or various other cyprinids; one in particular was a whole carp (~1' long), deeply scored and with red pepper flakes and a sweet glaze rubbed into the meat, thinly sliced green onions on top...

The buffalo had a nice flavor, and fewer intermuscular bones than I expected. You could certainly get big chunks with only a few easily removed bones. Next time try finely scoring the fillets from skin side about halfway through - you want to break up those intermuscular bones into pieces <1/4" long. Fry at a high temp until crispy, those bones will soften up. Mmm, good. Redhorse are particularly good smoked, no scoring needed there, just brine, dry, and smoke.

#14 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:08 AM

I was recently on the Lower Illinois River. If you dine at any local restaurant near the river, they will have buffalo on the menu. Many of these restaurants have machines that score the flesh almost all the way to the vertebra and they serve half a fish to you. It looks almost like a spiral cut ham, at least the method of scoring (not the flesh). Perhaps other parts of the country do this as well but I know it's common there.

#15 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 09:57 AM

Congrats Nate! That is fantastic news. If you guys end up moving up here, we're gonna have to try all sorts of culinary preparations over the fire/grill. Justin was so mad at me for doing fun stuff that he didn't talk to me for about 30 seconds, but then he decided he needed to bring back some of the white sucker from the runs in the Thumb of MI when he's up there this weekend with his son. I think what is key to eating sucker is to throw the book out on "fillets" and frying. They have to be smoked or ground up into pattys. Like Dave said, we were very surprised with the lack of intramuscular bones. It's just they're so danged crazy that you think there's a whole lot more than there is.

We got the 15'x6'x6' bag seine in last week. I have Earth Day crap this weekend, but next weekend... It's ON! At least in the lower Maumee. I'm going to get a permit and hopefully a little money to do a full survey of the Metropark properties this year. I'm tired of the Maumee gettin' dissed.

Todd

PS Brian, you'll have a pm with a draft here shortly, if you were wondering :)

#16 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 10:39 AM

I think what is key to eating sucker is to throw the book out on "fillets" and frying. They have to be smoked or ground up into pattys. Like Dave said, we were very surprised with the lack of intramuscular bones. It's just they're so danged crazy that you think there's a whole lot more than there is.


Just to clarify, that buffalo had less than expected; redhorse and white suckers have a LOT! I'd still rather have a scored and fried sucker fillet than I would a sucker patty; I just don't like fish that's been that processed. Also, I once ruined a food processor in an attempt to make carp chili (long story and I really don't want to remember it). Never, under any circumstances, will I run fish through a food processor again.

#17 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 11:17 AM

Ah okay, my misunderstanding. Then I guess I can't wait to see what the redhorse have in store! :)

It's gettin' time for the suckers to be running the Maumee. I wish the water levels would be a little more cooperative. I don't bother until the Waterville guage is at 3.5'. But it might just be perfect for that bag seine down the Side Cut channel. Hmmmm.... Should I weasel out of house and plant duties on Sunday? ;)

Todd

#18 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 11:37 AM

P.S. I just got the acceptance letter from UT today!!!


Yay! Congratulations Nate!

#19 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 25 April 2009 - 08:57 AM

That would be great to see some M. robusta, once I get some more free time I plan on getting involved in some things like that, both for the fun and to keep myself in the "fish world". There has to be some M. collapsum runs up this way, but I am probably too late to see them on the beds (I did get a couple last summer though). I would imagine that different beds are active at different times depending on conditions.

As for AFs, Im sure he would let me go, funding it however.......maybe not

Marcus


Hey Marcus! You should hook up with the robust redhorse folks and see if they need "volunteers" to watch the stations ;) Jim just sent around an email today saying the run was pretty much over, saw a pod of what he thought were silver redhorse. It's a totally ephemeral thing. I wonder if there if the river strains are more spaced out? That was pretty intense on that particular bed.

Soo.... Is John gonna let you join us fishheads at AFS this year? :)

Todd



#20 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 10:52 AM

Hey I just had J.R. point out where the Citico video was on YouTube (duh!) Check this out!

http://www.youtube.c...re=channel_page

Marcus, yeah I hear you on the funding part! Maybe it would be more interesting to catch up with us on the last day and then bust over to the Lower Duck with us for a snorkel adventure?

Todd




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