Well mike and I are in the car and we just wanted to let u guys know that we caught a rainbow darter in fox creek. Pictures will follow later when I am home. Just wanted to let you guys know
Rainbow Darter Caught In Eastern NY Today
Started by
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, May 09 2009 04:07 PM
28 replies to this topic
#4
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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:52 PM
Great to get out and find fish huh? I'm excited for you and hope you had a good time today. What else did you see?
well i only posted this specific thread on this fish cuz they arent suppose to be this far east..mike also found this to be a big deal. we got rainbows, tesselated, logperch, fantail, and greensided, bunch of dace...i cant remember everything so i am hoping mike can write up a nice trip report!
#5
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Posted 09 May 2009 - 07:56 PM
I'll admit I was trying to remember how far north & east rainbows have been found, anywhere near Albany would seem to be on the edge. Congrats. I take rainbows for granted since we can catch 3 or 4 at a time in seines in north 'bama, NY is different.
#6
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Posted 09 May 2009 - 08:04 PM
I know what you mean they are very plentiful here in NE Ohio.I'll admit I was trying to remember how far north & east rainbows have been found, anywhere near Albany would seem to be on the edge. Congrats. I take rainbows for granted since we can catch 3 or 4 at a time in seines in north 'bama, NY is different.
#7
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#8
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Posted 09 May 2009 - 09:27 PM
Rainbows aren't supposed to be several places they can be found. You may want to submit this find to the Nonindigenous Aquatic Species website. NAS . I'm sure any recent introduction into an Atlantic drainge in NY has led to their rapid exspansion.
Rainbows must have spread in many directions because there are tons way down here in southeastern Louisiana.
#9
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Posted 10 May 2009 - 08:27 AM
I just reported it. I've sampled this location several times the last several years and never found a rainbow darter. The closest they come is in western NY around Rochester as far as I've ever heard. Around Rochester I've recently (last couple yrs) found them in some new spots they weren't when I lived there in the 1980's. But all those were close to known sites. This one is four hrs driving from those.Rainbows aren't supposed to be several places they can be found. You may want to submit this find to the Nonindigenous Aquatic Species website. NAS . I'm sure any recent introduction into an Atlantic drainge in NY has led to their rapid exspansion.
We could only find this one lone male.
Edited by keepnatives, 10 May 2009 - 08:30 AM.
#13
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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:33 AM
We caught lots of greensided ones. Wish we got to see a big male mike.Wasn't that loosely addressed/confirmed with the two recent phylogenies? Hudson, Cayuga, whatever NY Atlantic basin pops introduced...
So what r u doing this weekend?
#14
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Posted 10 May 2009 - 01:32 PM
Wasn't that loosely addressed/confirmed with the two recent phylogenies? Hudson, Cayuga, whatever NY Atlantic basin pops introduced...
Well, shame on me, I don't have Amanda's paper on my computer (or Kyle's either), and I think she was the one who specifically looked at those populations. And I can't remember if they were blennioides or philodotum or both. But I remember there was something whacky going on... She definitely found both in the Cuyahoga.
It's a convoluted process for me to get to the papers from home, if someone has time to look today. If not, I'll round it up tomorrow. Back to gardening!
Todd
#15
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Posted 10 May 2009 - 02:37 PM
Both papers are in the document repository and we had a discussion that died off...perhaps one to revist. I think you're remembering something simlar though, E. b.b. Upper with an odd E. b.p. on that eastern range extent. Neither really got at those oddities and potential introductions (natural and not). The 'bait bucket' scenario and dispersal would directly relate to the rainbow intro & exspansion. Banded have also done the same in the Susq.
#16
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Posted 10 May 2009 - 11:35 PM
Inland fishes of NY indicates E. b. pholidotumis is in the Mohawk system (Schoharie creek) which is the same found in lower Genesee and Great Lakes so it may be they got here from the great lakes. I guess if that's possible Rainbows could have reached here the same way as they are found in some creeks off western Lake Ontario. But the Greensides apparently have been here quite a while possibly during or near the Lake Warren stage (again per Inland Fishes of New York). I gotta believe the rainbows came by "bait bucket release" much later since there haven't been any reports of them east of the Rochester area (or have there?) I just want to know who's been collecting rainbows around here without telling me there's another native collector nearby!Don't think the greenside are spozed to be up thataway either.
Todd
#17
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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:55 PM
Well it's been quite a while since I've been to Fox creek and Schoharie creek since I got a ticket for collecting native fish at Schoharie creek and that was before Hurricane Irene in 2011. I often wondered how long it would take for the Rainbow darters we discovered in Fox creek to get into Schoharie creek itself. Spring flooding gets pretty intense in this area so I figured it wouldn't be long plus the first Fox creek site we found rainbows at is a short though winding run to Schoharie creek. I wish I'd gotten back to the area before the 2011 Irene flooding to see how fast the expansion was under normal conditions.
The Irene flooding was devastating to the Schoharie valley through which Schoharie creek runs with many tributaries including Fox creek. The entire valley from the Mohawk river through Esperance, Central Bridge, Schoharie, Middleburg, Fultonham and beyond was one giant flood plain. Do a Google search for Hurricane Irene Schoharie valley photos, it will blow your mind just how expansive the flooding was. I wondered if the intensity of the flooding would facilitate the rainbow darters expansion or the resulting siltation might hinder it.
I had just bought a GoPro to try my hand at some snorkeling videos and decided it was time to finally revisit Fox creek. The creek was straightened out in many areas and leveled out somewhat with less riffle areas. The water was, as usual silty so visibility was about 1-2 feet. My inexperience and lack of clarity prevented any quality videos, sorry. But with just my perfect dip net was able to find that the rainbow darters were alive and well here.
I then decided to run to Central Bridge and check out Schoharie creek. This section of Schoharie creek hadn't changed much though it did also seem to have less riffle area. This area is about 5 miles from the Fox creek site. I'd never found rainbowdarters here and like the Fox creek site I visited and sampled this site many times each year up until I was ticketed for collecting native fish. Again with very little effort I quickly caught several adult and juvenile rainbow darters.
Scott, the Western/Central NY NANFA rep. and myself are hoping to get a group of NY NANFA members to do a search to see how far and where else they may have expanded to. More details to come.
The Irene flooding was devastating to the Schoharie valley through which Schoharie creek runs with many tributaries including Fox creek. The entire valley from the Mohawk river through Esperance, Central Bridge, Schoharie, Middleburg, Fultonham and beyond was one giant flood plain. Do a Google search for Hurricane Irene Schoharie valley photos, it will blow your mind just how expansive the flooding was. I wondered if the intensity of the flooding would facilitate the rainbow darters expansion or the resulting siltation might hinder it.
I had just bought a GoPro to try my hand at some snorkeling videos and decided it was time to finally revisit Fox creek. The creek was straightened out in many areas and leveled out somewhat with less riffle areas. The water was, as usual silty so visibility was about 1-2 feet. My inexperience and lack of clarity prevented any quality videos, sorry. But with just my perfect dip net was able to find that the rainbow darters were alive and well here.
I then decided to run to Central Bridge and check out Schoharie creek. This section of Schoharie creek hadn't changed much though it did also seem to have less riffle area. This area is about 5 miles from the Fox creek site. I'd never found rainbowdarters here and like the Fox creek site I visited and sampled this site many times each year up until I was ticketed for collecting native fish. Again with very little effort I quickly caught several adult and juvenile rainbow darters.
Scott, the Western/Central NY NANFA rep. and myself are hoping to get a group of NY NANFA members to do a search to see how far and where else they may have expanded to. More details to come.
#18
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Posted 14 August 2014 - 01:58 AM
Searching for the rainbows to find their range sounds fun. (assuming it is not on a day when I have overtime, work is going into mandatory). I am not surprised they spread that far. In Ohio I observed they are not very picky at all about habitat.
The USGS nonindiginous species page said they have been found in the mouth of Plotter Kill NW of Schenectady too, so they seem to have spread alot through the region and are likely spread quite a way through the Mohawk River.
The USGS nonindiginous species page said they have been found in the mouth of Plotter Kill NW of Schenectady too, so they seem to have spread alot through the region and are likely spread quite a way through the Mohawk River.
#20
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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:48 AM
I'm not an angler, but does anybody use darters as bait? I imagine they'd die pretty quick on a hook and make poor bait (aside from being more work to catch in quantity than shiners). If I were a state fishery biologist I just might suspect aquarium collectors as the most likely mode of introduction for rainbow darters.
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