well ladies and gentleman you guys have hooked me. I guess in the beginning i can think Brian @ BTDarters for exposing me to native darters....and now i have to thank Mike Lucas (keepnatives) for fully converting me to a full native keeper. i just put all my south american fish up for sale on monster fish keepers. Now I will mainley and only be focusing on natives. With a concentration in darters...although i just fell in love with red sided dace. just wanted to let everyone know.....so now how can i get my hands on some of them bluemask darters i need some of these real pretty ones to get my wife to accept the fact that i will now want to travel to go collecting with you guys

Then bluemask are not your fish. They're a boring beige darter the rest of the year, without even a hint of blue, to the point that they make tesselated and johnny darter look interesting. That, and all the ethical concerns with Federal and State listings and a limited range that's dammed to all hell... And if they're like any other Doration darter, they're a pain in the butt to feed with anything else in the tank.

What you need are some redline darter!

Todd

Yeah I def wanna get redlines. No doubt

Not to put a damper on your very refreshing enthusiasm, but just saying "I want this", is one thing that is somewhat different about native fish keeping than tropical. A recent post about bluemask being cool on MFK follwed by a 'sure be nice to have that' is a great example of what I mean. For one, you can't just go out and take whatever you want without some investigation and education. Bluemask darter is a federally listed species found only in a few locations. Also like Todd said, even the other more widespread members of that darter subgenus are quite hard to keep. I'd consider myself a moderately skilled fish keeper and I was never able to keep the more common speckled/blueside darter for more than a few months. There are some really hardy darters that make good introductory fish, many of the wide ranging species like rainbow, greenside, banded, tessellated, swamp, etc. that will make great native darter for you to cut your teeth on.

Just cuz I'm new here doesn't mean I'm new to fish. In the past year I've kept pretty sensitive eartheaters as well as stingrays. I do weekly water changes and have almost a 40x an hour turnover rate on my tanks for filtering. But I will say I am new to native fish and you are correct I do not know what's darters are protected and which aren't. I only said that I want that because of the pic someone posted. That told me that someone had them so I had no reason to believe that it was protected. Who said I wouldn't go to those spots that only have them? This enthusiasm isn't going to run out. I've kept africans I've kept south and centrel americans, kept rays, piranhas and other kind of fish. This is now the last road for me. Native fish. I haven't had any ammonia since I cycled my tanks again a year ago. No nitrite, no nitrate and ph at 7.0. I feed frozen daphnia, bloodworms, live blackworms, live scuds, and snails along with frozen krill. So I fell confident I can keep even non hardy fish. The only problem is finding someone to go collecting with a couple times a month. But I thank you for your concern and letting me know about a species that is protected I was only acting on that fish for its colors. I do know candy darters are protected. And that's my favorite. Marylands not to far....what u guys got for fish that new england and eastern NY don't have. I would like to go down there

Edited by bumpylemon, 10 May 2009 - 03:54 PM.

Just cuz I'm new here doesn't mean I'm new to fish. In the past year I've kept pretty sensitive eartheaters as well as stingrays. I do weekly water changes and have almost a 40x an hour turnover rate on my tanks for filtering. But I will say I am new to native fish and you are correct I do not know what's darters are protected and which aren't. I only said that I want that because of the pic someone posted. That told me that someone had them so I had no reason to believe that it was protected. Who said I wouldn't go to those spots that only have them? This enthusiasm isn't going to run out. I've kept africans I've kept south and centrel americans, kept rays, piranhas and other kind of fish. This is now the last road for me. Native fish. I haven't had any ammonia since I cycled my tanks again a year ago. No nitrite, no nitrate and ph at 7.0. I feed frozen daphnia, bloodworms, live blackworms, live scuds, and snails along with frozen krill. So I fell confident I can keep even non hardy fish. The only problem is finding someone to go collecting with a couple times a month. But I thank you for your concern and letting me know about a species that is protected I was only acting on that fish for its colors. I do know candy darters are protected. And that's my favorite. Marylands not to far....what u guys got for fish that new england and eastern NY don't have. I would like to go down there

i do now see the species list on this forum of endangered and protected species...thanks!!

Just cuz I'm new here doesn't mean I'm new to fish. In the past year I've kept pretty sensitive eartheaters as well as stingrays. I do weekly water changes and have almost a 40x an hour turnover rate on my tanks for filtering. But I will say I am new to native fish and you are correct I do not know what's darters are protected and which aren't. I only said that I want that because of the pic someone posted. That told me that someone had them so I had no reason to believe that it was protected. Who said I wouldn't go to those spots that only have them? This enthusiasm isn't going to run out. I've kept africans I've kept south and centrel americans, kept rays, piranhas and other kind of fish. This is now the last road for me. Native fish. I haven't had any ammonia since I cycled my tanks again a year ago. No nitrite, no nitrate and ph at 7.0. I feed frozen daphnia, bloodworms, live blackworms, live scuds, and snails along with frozen krill. So I fell confident I can keep even non hardy fish. The only problem is finding someone to go collecting with a couple times a month. But I thank you for your concern and letting me know about a species that is protected I was only acting on that fish for its colors. I do know candy darters are protected. And that's my favorite. Marylands not to far....what u guys got for fish that new england and eastern NY don't have. I would like to go down there

I wasn't questioning your aquarium system or fish keeping skills. There are some inherent responsibilities and ethical issues that come with collecting fish from the wild that don't always come with purchasing them from your local store. As to the bluemask darter picture, that happened to be yanked right off the FWS website. I'm affraid you'll be dissapointed to know that among several of Maryland's odd fishging regulations, a non-resident cannot use a net of any kind, other than a landing net, to fish.

I wasn't questioning your aquarium system or fish keeping skills. There are some inherent responsibilities and ethical issues that come with collecting fish from the wild that don't always come with purchasing them from your local store. As to the bluemask darter picture, that happened to be yanked right off the FWS website. I'm affraid you'll be dissapointed to know that among several of Maryland's odd fishging regulations, a non-resident cannot use a net of any kind, other than a landing net, to fish.

i wanted to maybe get some people to go to NJ if that was possible? well i can still go to maryland and watch you net and give me the fish haha. what do you guys have for darters?

Nothing really that can legally be possessed that is different from what you can find closer. Maybe banded darter, but don't need to come to MD for those. They can be collected from the PA portion of the Susquehanna.

Nothing really that can legally be possed that is different from what you can find closer. Maybe banded darter, but don't need to come to MD for those. They can be collected from PA portion of Susquehanna.

yeah. i hear you. i want to go to maybe new jersey. im having trouble finding local minnows and dace in my area. i did catch some blacknose dace today. a lil stream 5 min from my house. i cant get over all the new natives im finding right around my area...all these things i never knew existed. its great.

Not to put a damper on your very refreshing enthusiasm, but just saying "I want this", is one thing that is somewhat different about native fish keeping than tropical. A recent post about bluemask being cool on MFK follwed by a 'sure be nice to have that' is a great example of what I mean. For one, you can't just go out and take whatever you want without some investigation and education. Bluemask darter is a federally listed species found only in a few locations. Also like Todd said, even the other more widespread members of that darter subgenus are quite hard to keep. I'd consider myself a moderately skilled fish keeper and I was never able to keep the more common speckled/blueside darter for more than a few months. There are some really hardy darters that make good introductory fish, many of the wide ranging species like rainbow, greenside, banded, tessellated, swamp, etc. that will make great native darter for you to cut your teeth on.

bumpylemon, the advice you just got from Todd and Matt is coming from a level of field experience you just won't see on most forums. Give it the weight it deserves.
FYI, from Matt's list above, tessellated and swamp darters are available for you to collect in Grafton. Most weedy ponds and dammed up brooks will have swamp darters and all the higher quality tribs to the Blackstone have tesselated. The tesselated darters are just challenging enough to keep fed in a community to give you a taste of what a tougher species is like.
Also, let me know when when you have a cool water tank with flow set up and I can give you some rainbow darters to get you started.
Not to discourage mad collecting road trips! By all means, break out the atlas and gas up the wagon. Just get your feet wet a bit before you jump in the deep part.

Hey mike. Thanks for posting. I do have about a 3" tesselated. He is loving black worms. I currently have logperch, rainbows,greensided,faintail, swamp, and tesselated. I would love to get some more rainbows. Where are u located? My tanks are @ 70 degrees. And soon the AC will be on so it may drop a few. I would love for u to show me some spots around us. Pleaseeee lol

yeah. i hear you. i want to go to maybe new jersey. im having trouble finding local minnows and dace in my area. i did catch some blacknose dace today. a lil stream 5 min from my house. i cant get over all the new natives im finding right around my area...all these things i never knew existed. its great.

I am not sure about mass, but in new hampshire I have found a variety of minnows and dace through fishing.

COMMON SHINERS: These are... well... common. I have encountered them in martin book and the boat landing area of swanzey lake.

GOLDEN SHINER: I have caught these in the setbacks of the connecticut river in hinsdale.

FALLFISH: a VERY VERY common dace. Found in streams anywhere outside the "brook trout zone" (my name for the upstream and small tributary parts of streams where the dace and shiners vanish and all you find is small brookies). I know of both small and large sized populations of them (they can indeed outgrow many tanks.) They are easy enough to find, just take some worms and head trout fishing in stocked waters, you are sure to encounter a few. The Asuelot River and Martin Brook in New Hampshire has these.

Thanks a lot. Are you going to be able to collect this weekend?

Thanks a lot. Are you going to be able to collect this weekend?

I might not have my tank by then but I can take you around and help you sample up in new hampshire. I need to learn the basics of dip netting and kick seining as I am new to this.

I can easilly take you a few places along the connecticut river drainage (connecticut river, ashuelot river, martin/rice brook (everyone calls it martin brook except the map makers who change the name halfway up stream), maybe swanzey lake or forest lake, if we have time I can try a few places I never tried before (south branch, roaring brook, tulley brook), if we have an extra half hour to travel I can add in pearly pond (a great fishing spot, i also caught shiners at the outlet strem their), and the upper contookut river (the only part of the merrimack drainage in my county).

Just name a place and time for us to meet (along 91, maybe in greenfield or northampton, may be best as it'd be mid way as you seem to live near worcestor). It'd likely be an hours drive from the meet up spot. to where we begin sampling (not counting sampling and travel time itself). If you need a NH license we can get one at the hinsdale wal-mart (their are other places, but this one lets you work your way up the drainage from the connecticut river).

I maybe going to NY. I'm waiting to hear back from mike. I was referring to you coming on that trip. I'm new at this too and it would be awesome for both us to go with him. I'm actually out at wachusett resevoir dip netting right now (on the blackberry). Caught 2 lil pickeral. Let them go. Lookin for some spottail shiners and creek chub. If mike can't go I'd def go up to NH

i just put all my south american fish up for sale on monster fish keepers.

That seems a little extreme. On the other hand, how about providing a link to it so we can see what you're unloading. Somebody here (possibly me, for one) might want some of them.

That seems a little extreme. On the other hand, how about providing a link to it so we can see what you're unloading. Somebody here (possibly me, for one) might want some of them.

i dont think its extreme. lots of people on here now only do natives. i went out collecting....i loved it....i fell in love with natives. i enjoyed the whole go out and catch my own fish instead of going out to the local fish store. i find darters to be more interesting then my other fish. and its not like i could mix the two lol. if i had a choice i would just bout another tank...but the wife wouldnt let me...so its was a choice i needed to make.

Edited by bumpylemon, 14 May 2009 - 06:37 AM.

Acarichthys Heckelii he is huge. like 7" he was wild caught. has a "bite" off his top he received when he was in the wild so for that i will sell him cheap------20$

Striped Raphael Catfish-----3-4" 5"

Blue Acara 4.0-5.0"------10$

Satanoperca Leucostica x1----3" 13.00

Gymnogeophagus Balzani x11------1"-2.5"-7$ 65$ for whole lot

Gymnogeophagus Gymnogenys 'Laguna Arnaud' x1----3" 10$

Gymnogeophagus Labiatus 'Laguna Arnaud' x1----3" 10$

Jack Dempsey (BLACK)-3"-5$ he is all black. you may have seen the thread about it on mfk

Bleeding Heart Tetras x4 1.5-2" 3$ these guys are alot bigger than petstore bleeding hearts

Ctenopoma Acutirostre- African Bush Fish x1 2.5-3" 10$



this is all i have left

i dont think its extreme. lots of people on here now only do natives. i went out collecting....i loved it....i fell in love with natives. i enjoyed the whole go out and catch my own fish instead of going out to the local fish store. i find darters to be more interesting then my other fish. and its not like i could mix the two lol. if i had a choice i would just bout another tank...but the wife wouldnt let me...so its was a choice i needed to make.

When I started natives, I didn't unload my tropicals. Lots of people here keep tropicals also. I still have cichlids, loaches, ctenopoma, synodontus catfish, etc. One of my prettiest fishes is my daughter's Honduran Redpoint, which has been in my cichlid tank for probably about four years. It, by the way, qualifies as a North American native, because Honduras is part of North America. (We've had that discussion here more than once, and it is generally agreed that Central American fish qualify, because Central America is part of North America.) My South American chocolate cichlid, on the other hand, does not, or my Victorian. Your Jack Dempsey, being native to Mexico and Honduras, is also a North American native fish. If your objective is to have nothing but North American fish, you don't need to get rid of it. One of my goals is to get a North American fish (native to Nicaragua) called the Jaguar Cichlid, when I have space for one. On the other hand, I also would like to get a New Guinea Tiger Fish (Datnioides campbelli), when I can find one cheap enough (they're hard to find and expensive).

There's no law that says you can't keep North American fish with your tropicals. It all depends on their requirements. Most tropical fish require temperatures typical of summer water temperatures in much of North America. Your typical North American fish (those from north of Mexico, anyway) may not require a heater, but they can easily live in an aquarium heated to 76 degrees for cichlids. (This is obviously not true for coldwater fish such as trout. But it is true for most natives.) If they have compatible temperaments, you can keep them together. I have a central stoneroller living happily with the loaches and cichlids right now. I was also considering tossing a couple of less aggressive sunnies in with the less aggressive cichlids that I mentioned above. It's not a problem. How aggressive is your Jack Dempsey, anyway?