Cement Pond Plants ID

I know some of you are very good at this and i could use some of your knowledge and identification skills. While out snorkeling i find plants that are pretty or interesting and try them out. Some prosper, some die.
Here are 6 that have done well.
I am confused by a couple trees, 2 plants are a mystery and 2 submerged plants are near sures. I have others that i will add and inquire of later, especially as they flower. I would like to add a bog garden upstream as Chris S suggested years ago. It would offer a lot more plant habitat, natural filtration of fish waste and a insect production that would trickle drain to the cement pond proper. Dreamland.

Here are 6 plants...

This is a tree i bought at a nursery and always considered it a Bald Cypress until a couple years ago when Nick and Linda Z visited. He pointed out the needle variation with the adjoining similiar tree. I have cut it back twice and now after about 5 years the base is as big as a caveman's club. It grows barerooted in the rock and gravel and is lush, rich green and about 15' tall. Nick thought it could be a Dawn Redwood.

 DawnRedwood09x.JPG   99.72KB   1 downloads

This is the adjoining tree and i think it a Bald Cypress. I looked it up on Wikepedia and they presented a closeup of the needles which seem to match. I pulled it up from near my Dad's place in Pine Bluff, Arkansas. It is also planted bareroot and has grown and survived several harsh trimmings. The problem is, it is a sickly yellow green color, thus seems to be lacking a needed nutrient. Advice?

 BaldCypress09x.JPG   71.86KB   1 downloads

Im pretty sure this is Hornwort. Every year it does better and now fully occupies a wooded corner. A very neat, lush plant. I have found it prospering in spring runs and am pleased it does well in the higher temps of the pool. Very pretty.

 CP09_Hornwortx.JPG   80.48KB   1 downloads

This im sure is Anacharis. I had tried for a year or 2 to establish it in the shallow end. One day i dove down to the bottom of the 8' deep end and there was a little sprig rooted in the shag carpet. I now have a mountain of it and by the end of the summer it covers the surface of the deep end. It becomes a bit unsightly but flowers and offers refuge for insects and a breeding habitat for the Topminnows. I harvest the lush ends and trade them with my local fish store for shrimp tank refugies and bloodworms. I see it as a living filtration system.

 CP09_Anacharisx.JPG   101.96KB   1 downloads

This plant, i remember finding at a outflow of a springfed pond in North Bama. The name Lizard Tail was offered by Dave a month ago. It had beautiful flowers on it when i collected a sprig several years ago, but i have yet to see any since its become established in the pond. It is growing very well and sends tall long whiplike branches out and are covered with these leaves.

 LizardTail09x.JPG   78.64KB   2 downloads

This is a plant i collected in submerged water in the Little Sequatchie River, in a back water area where it was very thick. During the summer it sends up little leaves that float and look like pointy ovals flat on the surface. Ive seen it in other places too. I would like to have more of it. It is rooted in a gallon container with dirt covered in gravel. When collected it was growing in silty mud.

 CP09_MysteryPlantx.JPG   76.62KB   1 downloads

Is there a internet source where one can look at native aquatic plants? Ponds, Aquaria, Wild both immergent and submerged?
Thanks!

Casper

Casper m'man, your "Anacharis" is indeed, now better known as Elodea. It thrives on lots of bright light and warmth. And the hornwort is hornwort in my humble opinion. That's the limit of my aquatic plant ID skills... For the sickly green look, the missing micronutrients could be iron or magnesium. There's a commercial product for yard plantings called IronRite that might work; I think it contains magnesium, too. Magnesium is essential to the correct structure and function of chlorophyll (in a million words or less).

I think the last one is pondweed, a Potamageton species. Bald cypress is a pretty light green under normal conditions. You sure it's not just normal cypress color?

Aquatic Plant Central is usually a good source for aquatic plants.... Http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com

Also check with your local Ag university....most are more than happy to help with questions......

The anacharis is the Brazilian Egeria densa,not the native Elodea canadensis. Elodea has leaves in whorls of three. I'm not sure what the "lizardtail" is, but it's not the plant that usually goes by that name (Saururus cernuus), which has dark glossy leaves like elongated hearts. I don't recognize the first conifer, but it doesn't particularly look like Metasequoia, which has broad fronds very similar to baldcypress.

Edited by Newt, 12 June 2009 - 11:00 AM.

Photo 1 is Taxodium ascendens (pond cypress). Related to bald cypress (T. distichum). Was once thought to be a subspecies.

The North Alabama plant is not lizzard tail. Do you remember what the flower color was, and what they looked like? Along the stem or at the top? The leaves look whorled in the photo - how many are in each ring?

Last photo = Potamogeton crispus (curly pondweed). Invasive exotic. EDIT: this is incorrect, as pointed out by Brian below. Correct ID is P. amplifolius.

Thanks for the comments, i appreciate them but a bit sadden that at least 2 are NOT native.

Bruce, Newt... Foreign anacharis. Wow, i will never get it out if i want to be 100% native. Brazilian Egeria densa. However it is serving a healthy deed. Todd had suggested adding iron and that i did a couple years ago and i think it was called Ironrite as you suggested Bruce. About a month later my water got cloudy and i thought i was in trouble but it cleared up the next spring. I have since added a bunch of rusty railroad spikes but have been told both that would and would NOT work for adding iron. Most of my plants do seem to have a richer green since those 2 additions tho. The Bald Cypress has a yellow tinge to it, not the pastle green i remember in Tates Hell.

Rjmtx and NativePlanter... Last photo = Potamogeton crispus (curly pondweed). Invasive exotic.
Dang, another exotic yet i collected it from the wild. It is neat looking tho. I will take a pic if and when the floating part occurs.

Josh...
I went to the site you suggested but could not get the plant ID section to work logically for me. Http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com
However i did spend a lot of time reading and looking at all those Amano inspired aquariums, including those tiny micro versions. I am much impressed!

NativePlanter... Pond Cypress. I have found good info on the net and agree with you on its ID. Tho i bought it in a nursery here in TN i am just beyond its natural range. This site mentions Tates Hell and the dwarf Bald Cypress's there, i will check on that when i return this fall. http://www.floridata.../T/taxo_asc.cfm Perhaps the dwarf / stunred Bald Cypress's are Pond Cypress's.

As for the still a mystery plant, and not Lizardtail, it think it had a frilly purplish flower last summer. I will take a photo when it blooms again.

Here is a pic showing both Cypress's side by side. Note the off color. Maybe it is the normal color.
 CP09_2Cypressx.JPG   121.98KB   2 downloads

Thanks, i will be researching what all of you have told me.

Casper,

Can't help with the tree IDs. I have to agree that the Hornwort is indeed Hornwort, and that the Anacharis is not native. There's an image out there somewhere that shows the number of leaves at the whorl and what species it indicates. I'll have to search for it, but I do know if it's got more than 3 leaves at the whorl, it's not a native plant.

Can't help with the lizardtail.

I have to disagree with nativeplanter on the ID of the last species. Curly-leaf pondweed (Potamogeton crispus, non-native) would have serrated leaf edges and would not have floating leaves. I believe what you have is Large-Leaf Pondweed (Potamogeton amplifolius, native). Large-Leaf has smooth-edged submersed leaves and oval floating leaves as you have described. It's really a neat plant! Nice find! Oh, and if you try to bring any indoors, keep it away from Amano Shrimp. They eat that stuff like it's candy!

Brian

Edit: Made a correction.

Edited by BTDarters, 15 June 2009 - 02:08 PM.

Here's the link for the Elodea/Egeria/Hydrilla photo key. Elodea is the only native.

http://www.marinebio....com/elodea.jpg

Brian

Brian J. Torreano - Owner
BTDarters
American Native Fish for
your aquarium...and more!
Web: http://www.btdarters.com
Email: bt@btdarters.com
Phone: (262) 268-7489

I have to disagree with nativeplanter on the ID of the last species. Curly-leaf pondweed (Potamogeton crispus, non-native) would have serrated leaf edges and would not have floating leaves. I believe what you have is Large-Leaf Pondweed (Potamogeton amplifolius, native). Large-Leaf has smooth-edged submersed leaves and oval floating leaves as you have described. It's really a neat plant! Nice find! Oh, and if you try to bring any indoors, keep it away from Amano Shrimp. They eat that stuff like it's candy!

Eeerk... Brian, you are quite right. Not sure what happened to my brain back there. Sorry! I will edit my post above to prevent confusion.

Thanks for all the input guys and gal. So this is the agreement...
Pic 1 is the Pond Cypress, Taxodium ascendens. Native.
Pic 2 is the Bald Cypress, T. distichum. Native.
Pic 3 is Hornwort. Native.
Pic 4 is egeria densa, Brazilian. NON Native. Thanks to Brian's provided key, close inspection yields that the leaves are 4 and the adjoining levels are rotated 45 degrees and so on.
Pic 5. Still unknown, til it flowers.
Pic 6 is Large-Leaf Pondweed, Potamogeton amplifolius. Native.

Here is a picture Klaus took of one of the trees in the stand of Dwarf Bald Cypress's in Tates Hell. Sure looks like a Pond Cypress to me! They may need to rename the boardwalk and Cypress stand.

 DwarfBaldCypress_PondCypressx.JPG   98.79KB   0 downloads

I have another tree picture and think it to be a Water Willow. I collected it from a ditch several years ago. It grows barerooted, soil-less in a suspended pot. I heavily prune it each fall and it grows with an ever increasing florish each year. The underwater root mass is very large and i presume provides filtration and habitat for a multitude of tiny critters. Is it a Water Willow?

 CP09Willowx.JPG   54.44KB   0 downloads

It is a true willow (Salix sp.), perhaps sandbar willow (S. exigua) or Carolina willow (S. caroliniana). Closeups shots of the stems and leaves might help in ID.

"Water willow" usually refers to an unrelated herbaceous plant, Justicia americana, which is often the dominant vegetation on gravel bars.

Pic 5 - I'm thinking this could be Decodon verticillatus. This species has a lot of variability in both leaves and flowers; the leaves can be either opposite or whorled in 3s. Yours looks like 3s, no? Your leaves are a little more elliptic than I am used to, but the flowers would fit the bill - frilly purple/pink, and the stems are long and arching. Do the stems swell and get really spongey underwater? Does it ever root where it bends over and touches the water again? Are the flowers in the axils of the leaves (where the leaf meets the stem)? If yes, this is likely Decodon.

Last photo could be willow, but it's hard to tell which one. Can you get a close-up of the stem and leaves? Ironically, Decodon is sometimes called "water willow". Not at all the same thing.

Thanks again for all your input and advice.
I have a few updates and from reviewing your suggestion ms native planter i think you are right with your proposed ID, Decodon verticillatus. The picture fits the bill. Where it bends over and touches the ground or water it begins to send out rootlets.

 CP09-MysteryPlantz.JPG   125.91KB   0 downloads

And here is a close up of its pretty delicate flower. Do you think this IS Decodon verticillatus? What is the common name?

 CP09-MysteryPlantFlowerz.JPG   70.91KB   0 downloads

Here is the Willow after it received an intense hack job. It had broke loss from its suspension and i will have to trim back the root mass as well. Its too heavy. I will re-suspend it with a rust proof logging chain! Perhaps now, one of you can fine tune the ID.

 CP09-WillowTreez.JPG   161.51KB   0 downloads

Here is the Water Willow, Justicia americana, i enjoy seeing it florish on gravel bars and lots of darters love to hide and forage among it structure. I have a nice speading stand of it in the cement pond.

 CP09-WaterWillowz.JPG   94.41KB   0 downloads

Again here is the sickish yellowish Bald Cypress standing next to the pretty green Pond Cypress. Bald Cypress' in the wild will have a soft pastel green but not yellowish in my experience. I know it needs something but what and how would i administer it without diluting or effecting the entire water column? My current thought is to cut it way back and treat it like a bonsai stunted scrub. I have also noted that the individual fronds will vary in yellowishness as they develop. Note how the next pic, after this one, shows the variation in color especially at the tips. One thought is maybe my water is too alkaline and Bald Cypress's like acidic... but that factor is beyond my knowledge. This tip banding may reflect the fresh rains that are directed to the pool and how the altered water chemistry shows in the recent growth.

 CP09-Yellowingz.JPG   152.7KB   0 downloads

 CP09-YellowingCloseUpz.JPG   112.13KB   0 downloads

And finally is some of the Mint which can easily overtake whole areas. I love the smell and use it to flavor my Cement Pond Tea. I know there are many types of mint and i think this to be the foreign invasive. It provides excellent filtration tho.

 CP09-MintFlowerz.JPG   75.73KB   0 downloads

Casper,
The cypress does look rather chlorotic. If it were on land, I'd tell you to add some peat moss to help iron uptake by making it more acidic. But in your pond, there could be other problems. I was thinking - how much of a rooting area does it have? Cypress do well in submerged conditions, but I've never seen one grow in a confined space. I wonder if it's roots need to be able to spread out? The jury is still out on what exactly pneumatophores (knees) are for, so I'm thinking that the possible inability to grow them in your small space may not be the problem, but rather some other nutrient uptake issue maybe.

Cypress don't really need to grow in wetlands. They do just fine in uplands so long as there isn't competition from other trees. You could try moving it out of the pond and plant it nearby where it could develop a more normal root system. Not sure how easy that would be, given its size.

The photo you show is D. verticillatus. Often called "swamp loosestrife". Sometimes called "water willow" or "willow herb"

The willow looks like a black willow to me; Salix nigra.

Thanks Ms. NativePlanter.
Swamp loosestrife. Interesting name. I like it but it sure is wanting to spread out. I have to keep cutting it back. I need a bigger pool, and i got ideas but not much energy.

Yesterday i cut the yellowed, chlorotic ( funny word ) Bald Cypress way back. Bonsai style. It is planted bare rooted among some big stones and sends large roots out. The stones and roots are now locked as one. Perhaps i should consider submerging a bucket w/ soil and fertilizer and capped with gravel nearby. I could pull up one root and stick it into the bucket, perhaps providing needed nutrients that will give it a healthly soft green glow.

You mean the cypress doesn't have any soil at all???

Casper...

ZERO.
Neither does the Pond Cypress, Cattails, Iris, Water Willow, Tree Willow, etc, etc.
Only a couple plants have containers, Pond Lillys and all the Val.
The goal is to have them absorb their need nutrients from the water column.
So far, so good with the exception of the Bald Cypress.
?

In that case, I'm surprised some of the others are doing as well as they are. Cattails and Decodon often grow as floating mats, so I'm not surprised there. Willow roots well in water, but I've never seen a large one without soil. But then again, I've never seen anyone try to grow one long term without. Maybe try the bucket idea with the cypress.

When i say no soil, that is not to say there is no value.
The substrate is pea gravel and is quite dirty when you stir it up, about 5 or 6 years worth of fine silt made of decomposed plant material and perhaps fish waste. This pea gravel bed averages about 1 foot deep, under which lies a network of 5" diameter plastic, fine slotted, french drain flex line, typical of what is found in septic tank field lines. A problem is that this gravel bed is slowly becoming clogged, choking off the waterfall pump which is located in a corner chamber that the 4 field lines lead to.
Yesterday my son and i vacumned the gravel bed by plunging a perforated, tapered 1' nozzle down into the gravel. A clear tube above the nozzle shows the quanity of silt being sucked out followed by clear water. Then the nozzle is moved or plunged into a new spot. This also lossens the gravel bed and relieves the choking effect to the pump. We sucked about 1" out of the pool and loosened up the entire area below the falls. The device is called a Pond Vac but i have had to modify a steel vacumn nozzle for my needs. Its an odd device as it sucks for about 30 seconds, shuts off and drains for about 45 seconds and turns back on repeating the cycle. One has to lift the nozzle high out of the water when the vacumn shuts off otherwise the dirty water in the long intake hose will flow back out muddying the water.
I do think, and seemingly, the plants are getting plenty of nutrients from this silty gravel, with the exception of the Bald Cypress. I will try the bucket technique and hope to post good results in a year or two. What may also be handy about the bucket usage is i can plunge fertilizer stakes into it once a year or so.

A different exception is the Black Willow, as it is totally suspended in the water column, no soil, no gravel. Its root mass is enormous, providing all kinds of micro habitat for "fish food".

I consider the entire cement pond an ongoing experiment.

My current desire is to have more species procreate. Stone Rollers, Longears and Topminnows are the only consistant reproducers. Perhaps i need higher flow rates in the spring and more crevase spawning habitat.