Does anyone have any experience keeping juv. red horse in an aquarium? I probably should have been more careful, but apparently a few juvs. made their way home with me from Missouri. So far they have been living pretty well in a 35 gallon breeder tub with a variety of darters (except for the one that jumped and couldn't figure out how to get back in the aquarium or breath air). I don't want to sacrifice them, but how long can I expect them to live (no input from you Irate) in an aquarium situation?
Red Horse in aquarium
Started by
Michael Wolfe
, Dec 13 2006 02:53 PM
22 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 13 December 2006 - 04:40 PM
how long can I expect them to live (no input from you Irate)
aHEM!! Lest you forget, 57% of those polled agree that I am right, EVERY TIME! And a large percentage of the rest believe that I am right half the time. So don't press your luck, son, or I will feel a pronouncement coming on...
Anyway, I bet if you put them in a round tub with a powerhead or canister filter that makes the water go in a circular motion, and keep them outdoors, they will do very well until the weather heats up.
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Posted 13 December 2006 - 06:50 PM
I keep a juvenile Spotted Sucker in a planted aquarium. I feel that they need a lot of food and are not kept well with minnows and sunfish. These suckers are slow to get food and only feed from the sand on the bottom of my aquarium. I think they're long lived in an aquarium as I know smbass has one that's gotta be over two or three years in his aquarium.
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 12:50 AM
this is true I currently have a redhorse that started out at 3" about 2 years ago and is now aproaching 12". I have gotten it to eat the sinking shrimp pellets available at most pet stores and it also eats frozen foods well. It seems they just need a lot of food to make it down to them so if you have them with other fish be sure you are over feeding the others in the tank so that there is enough left over laying around that the suckers can graze on it. I currently have several chubsuckers (lake and creek), a small hog sucker and this large redhorse in a 50 gallon tank with several small sunfish, darters, and madtoms. The other fish in the tank are extremly chunky looking for their size and the suckers are all showing some growth. So I would say yes they can be kept successfully with a large amount of food, you already made it past the tuff part which is the first couple weeks of getting ajusted to the tank. That is usually when I loose new suckers I try to keep. Get them past that and they will be ok.
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 08:42 AM
this is true I currently have a redhorse that started out at 3" about 2 years ago and is now aproaching 12". I have gotten it to eat the sinking shrimp pellets available at most pet stores and it also eats frozen foods well. It seems they just need a lot of food to make it down to them so if you have them with other fish be sure you are over feeding the others in the tank so that there is enough left over laying around that the suckers can graze on it. I currently have several chubsuckers (lake and creek), a small hog sucker and this large redhorse in a 50 gallon tank with several small sunfish, darters, and madtoms. The other fish in the tank are extremly chunky looking for their size and the suckers are all showing some growth. So I would say yes they can be kept successfully with a large amount of food, you already made it past the tuff part which is the first couple weeks of getting ajusted to the tank. That is usually when I loose new suckers I try to keep. Get them past that and they will be ok.
This is the most encouraging post about keeping sucker I've heard. Thanks for the info. I'm sure this will help quite a few here (including myself). I've stayed away from sucker due to their reputation.
#8
Michael Wolfe
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Posted 14 December 2006 - 12:39 PM
Thanks, that is great info. These that I have are very small... two of them are in the 1 1/2 inch range and the other maybe 2 1/2 (the jumper was a little larger, but not really part of the equation any longer)
The convention was in what mid September? So these guys are rather well aclimated into their tank with the darters. This tank gets very little flow. I have a new internal pump that I have been wanting to try out. Would the increased flow be of a significant benefit to them? Or just increase the chance of them trying to jump up stream and out of the tank. I am probably going to try it anyway since the other fish in the tank are mostly darters, and since I really like the behaviours that I see in some of my other higher flow tanks.
The convention was in what mid September? So these guys are rather well aclimated into their tank with the darters. This tank gets very little flow. I have a new internal pump that I have been wanting to try out. Would the increased flow be of a significant benefit to them? Or just increase the chance of them trying to jump up stream and out of the tank. I am probably going to try it anyway since the other fish in the tank are mostly darters, and since I really like the behaviours that I see in some of my other higher flow tanks.
this is true I currently have a redhorse that started out at 3" about 2 years ago and is now aproaching 12". I have gotten it to eat the sinking shrimp pellets available at most pet stores and it also eats frozen foods well. It seems they just need a lot of food to make it down to them so if you have them with other fish be sure you are over feeding the others in the tank so that there is enough left over laying around that the suckers can graze on it. I currently have several chubsuckers (lake and creek), a small hog sucker and this large redhorse in a 50 gallon tank with several small sunfish, darters, and madtoms. The other fish in the tank are extremly chunky looking for their size and the suckers are all showing some growth. So I would say yes they can be kept successfully with a large amount of food, you already made it past the tuff part which is the first couple weeks of getting ajusted to the tank. That is usually when I loose new suckers I try to keep. Get them past that and they will be ok.
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Posted 20 January 2007 - 09:59 PM
I've been meaning to get to this for awhile... Sorry for my delayed repsonse.
Brian's response has been my experience as well. To get them feeding and stable is the biggest hurdle, but there's a lot more to it for the long term care. What I hope to do with this post is organize the thought a little bit more, provide some extra insights that I've run into along the way, and provide some direct husbandry notes from my experience.
I've reared every genera of sucker except Carpoides and Scartomyzon from juvenile to adult. If I could get tiny carpsuckers in the fall, I'd definately try them... Scartomyzon are out of reach for me except on long trips. If I came across them at the right size though, I'd definately try working with them, and hope to have the right combination of air/water temp and size happen at the Convention this year.
The one I definately won't do again is the white sucker, they grow too fast, and get too large. I'm also hesitant to want to try some of the larger redhorse suckers... I've kept and reared two shorthead (macrolepidotum). All I've done is prove they can outgrow a tank and bang up their noses when they spook in about a year and a half. I suspect this is also the case with the carpsuckers, but I'd like to do at least one.
However, golden (erythrurum), black (duquesnei), and in the south, the blacktail (poecilurum) redhorse all make great candidates for tanks with 18" of depth front to back. Blacktail sucker are one of my favorites, they have beautiful orange fins with a black streak through the tail... I was bummed to come home without one on a recent trip to Alabama and Florida, as the two I have are at an adult size (their 3rd year) and I'd like to start rearing another two from the 2006 cohort.
The good news... Hogsuckers (both northern and Alabama), spotted sucker, and any of the chubsuckers (Erimyzon sp.) make fine aquarium candidates, and really are the more interesting looking of the family.
The critical thing is to collect as young of specimens as possible, YOY in the fall or that same cohort the next spring. Fish that are older than that seem much less viable to acclimation... It's like once they get into a groove, that's that. They aren't changing for no body, no how! lol And some old specimens might acclimate... But the percentage success starts to dump once you pass the spring of that next year after birth. It's not that you're a bad person if you take a fish older than that... You just increase the chance of mortality after they've had that second summer, if that is a concern of yours. And I suspect we're having this discussion because people don't want to kill these awesome animals.
I should also note that I don't typically collect any fish after water temp is in the mid 70's, and I wouldn't bother taking a sucker over 70 degrees. I did it once (about 76), and had mortalities that I wasn't happy with. It was a real shame that the temps weren't right in the big rivers with all those carpsuckers we saw at the Convention! Some other species you can get away with it in those mid to upper 70's (darters, sunfish, catfish)... But I'm a big proponent of trying to only collect only when water temp is cooler.
Now that I've built up your hopes so you too can be Catostomid Crazy, it's time to chop you down!
Once you've got them home, there are 2 things a sucker needs.
1) Lots of food
2) Lot of eyes
The eyes part is the easy one to provide, at least from the start... The food part is just expensive, depending on how you go about it
They like to have a mess of minnows and darters swimming about, they're far less spooky with those other eyes watching around them (they're fish watchers too). I've kept suckers with pretty much every genera of the above, and they aren't picky about who's watching. Just so long as someone else is watching. I stumbled upon this when I moved all my fish except my prized suckers from a smaller tank into the original manifestation of the 100 gallon. Suddenly, my gregarious pets were skittish freaks that wouldn't touch their food. I threw a sixer of minnows back in, and then they were less spooky, started eating some. Couldn't believe it. Once I moved them into the big tank with all the fish, they were fine within 2 hours (head shaking). It makes sense though.
Of course, this need is counter intuitive to sparkling, tidy aquaria, as you'll need to deliver a large pay load of food to support the suckers, while having other much more receptive mouth in the way. Feeding tubes won't work, they'll just freak out and never feed. This is problimatic, as I'm sure you see.
On top of that, suckers require a large amount of food to meet their natural metabolic rate, and don't seem to be able to adjust it (like redtailed catfish, they're either growing or they're dead).
If I had to guess how much "a large amount" was... Based on the proportion left after I've saturated the other fish and left food blowing about for the suckers, there's about 1 oz of food per sub-adult fish remaining, and this happens 3-4 times per week.
Go to the freezer, get out your pack of frozen food, take your finger nail and use the frost to divide the pack into 1 oz denominations of the total. THAT'S how much food I'm talking about. 3-4 times a week. Each animal.
This isn't a problem at first when they're small, esp if you have access to a high protein mysis like Piscene Energetics mysis. But that stuff does come with a cost in nutrients into the system. And it does compound to that 1 oz per feeding within a year keeping the sucker. You could always euthenize once they got to a certain size, but many people aren't comfortable with that. So keep it in mind that you're going to grow that fish before you ever bother him in coming home with you
In the past, I've relied heavily on frozen foods such as P.E. mysis, Hikari bloodworms and mysis (smaler size of shrimp for the smaller guys) and krill a couple times a week.
I've been experimenting with other prepared foods since Brian mentioned having success with the Carnivore Pellets and in trying to use a prepared food to saturate my minnows. I've been very happy with the HBH line of foods, and find that everyone except the darters are happy to take the Soft n Moist krill (the darters do get exicted tho, just can't figure it out lol) and the suckers love the Cichlid Attack small pellets, and then the Hikari carnivore pellets. I'm sure they'd switch to any prepared food, but I wouldn't ever expect to rely on it wholy. They do prefer the frozen stuff if given the option.
And as I mention "saturate", I would say this is my feeding regime... To quickly stuff greedy mouths with as much as possible (let their gluttony work for you) so they're now unable to process as much as they've grabbed, are rendered into neutral... And let the rest of the food blow around for the more retiring species to make their claim on the bounty.
Darters are easily saturated, but you might see where the minnows are a pain. If this is your first go with it, I would not include any Clinostomus, Cyprinella, Luxilus, Nocomis, Pimepheles, or Rhinicthys, or Semotilus species. I omit Phoxinus from that list, as all species are quite worth the extra to saturate. If you can't keep dace, then what's the point?
I've had success keeping them with all the above genera with the exception of the Semotilus chubs (which is part a "they're boring" thing, and part a they're just greedy-lil-punks-on-top-of-being-boring thing). So it is possible, but you better have your aquaria kung fu up to par to deal with the nutrient balancing.
And no matter how you slice this tomato... You still need an aquaria regime that can contend with a high nutrient load, and won't cycle every time you dump food in. I've been having great success over the long haul with a deep sandbed planted tank approach. I think it would be most helpful and easiest for me to pass along the pdf reprint from the American Currents:
http://www.farmertod...e_fish_tank.pdf
If you find this article useful, become a NANFA member! There's much more to AC than that!
It's also frickin' neat to watch the suckers sift through the mix of substrates... You haven't truly kept a sucker (or corydoras catfish for that matter!) until you've kept them with sand in a heavy directional current. Period.
Which gets back to Michael's last question... It's not necessary... But it sure is better lookin'!
The fish jumped because it freaked out. And they will freak out and jump, sometimes when the lights come on, sometimes because another fish did something, sometimes because they're just suckers. My 100 gallon is open top, but I have about 10 inches they have to clear, and like I've said... The big ones get big enough to bust up their noses wide open on the side glass or tops. I'm willing to bet that most fish jumps you see outside on the water are suckers that are doing this very thing.
Well, I hope you've found this helpful and instructive. I've checked the little email notification check box to remind me if anyone has anything they'd like me to clarify etc. I am just horrible about remembering to stop and look at bulletin boards, and I'm glad we've got little doo-hickeys like that now. Hopefully, some of you more technically savvy can help me turn the board into more of an extention of my email, but I had better finish my thesis before I go distracting myself like that
Todd
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
Brian's response has been my experience as well. To get them feeding and stable is the biggest hurdle, but there's a lot more to it for the long term care. What I hope to do with this post is organize the thought a little bit more, provide some extra insights that I've run into along the way, and provide some direct husbandry notes from my experience.
I've reared every genera of sucker except Carpoides and Scartomyzon from juvenile to adult. If I could get tiny carpsuckers in the fall, I'd definately try them... Scartomyzon are out of reach for me except on long trips. If I came across them at the right size though, I'd definately try working with them, and hope to have the right combination of air/water temp and size happen at the Convention this year.
The one I definately won't do again is the white sucker, they grow too fast, and get too large. I'm also hesitant to want to try some of the larger redhorse suckers... I've kept and reared two shorthead (macrolepidotum). All I've done is prove they can outgrow a tank and bang up their noses when they spook in about a year and a half. I suspect this is also the case with the carpsuckers, but I'd like to do at least one.
However, golden (erythrurum), black (duquesnei), and in the south, the blacktail (poecilurum) redhorse all make great candidates for tanks with 18" of depth front to back. Blacktail sucker are one of my favorites, they have beautiful orange fins with a black streak through the tail... I was bummed to come home without one on a recent trip to Alabama and Florida, as the two I have are at an adult size (their 3rd year) and I'd like to start rearing another two from the 2006 cohort.
The good news... Hogsuckers (both northern and Alabama), spotted sucker, and any of the chubsuckers (Erimyzon sp.) make fine aquarium candidates, and really are the more interesting looking of the family.
The critical thing is to collect as young of specimens as possible, YOY in the fall or that same cohort the next spring. Fish that are older than that seem much less viable to acclimation... It's like once they get into a groove, that's that. They aren't changing for no body, no how! lol And some old specimens might acclimate... But the percentage success starts to dump once you pass the spring of that next year after birth. It's not that you're a bad person if you take a fish older than that... You just increase the chance of mortality after they've had that second summer, if that is a concern of yours. And I suspect we're having this discussion because people don't want to kill these awesome animals.
I should also note that I don't typically collect any fish after water temp is in the mid 70's, and I wouldn't bother taking a sucker over 70 degrees. I did it once (about 76), and had mortalities that I wasn't happy with. It was a real shame that the temps weren't right in the big rivers with all those carpsuckers we saw at the Convention! Some other species you can get away with it in those mid to upper 70's (darters, sunfish, catfish)... But I'm a big proponent of trying to only collect only when water temp is cooler.
Now that I've built up your hopes so you too can be Catostomid Crazy, it's time to chop you down!
Once you've got them home, there are 2 things a sucker needs.
1) Lots of food
2) Lot of eyes
The eyes part is the easy one to provide, at least from the start... The food part is just expensive, depending on how you go about it
They like to have a mess of minnows and darters swimming about, they're far less spooky with those other eyes watching around them (they're fish watchers too). I've kept suckers with pretty much every genera of the above, and they aren't picky about who's watching. Just so long as someone else is watching. I stumbled upon this when I moved all my fish except my prized suckers from a smaller tank into the original manifestation of the 100 gallon. Suddenly, my gregarious pets were skittish freaks that wouldn't touch their food. I threw a sixer of minnows back in, and then they were less spooky, started eating some. Couldn't believe it. Once I moved them into the big tank with all the fish, they were fine within 2 hours (head shaking). It makes sense though.
Of course, this need is counter intuitive to sparkling, tidy aquaria, as you'll need to deliver a large pay load of food to support the suckers, while having other much more receptive mouth in the way. Feeding tubes won't work, they'll just freak out and never feed. This is problimatic, as I'm sure you see.
On top of that, suckers require a large amount of food to meet their natural metabolic rate, and don't seem to be able to adjust it (like redtailed catfish, they're either growing or they're dead).
If I had to guess how much "a large amount" was... Based on the proportion left after I've saturated the other fish and left food blowing about for the suckers, there's about 1 oz of food per sub-adult fish remaining, and this happens 3-4 times per week.
Go to the freezer, get out your pack of frozen food, take your finger nail and use the frost to divide the pack into 1 oz denominations of the total. THAT'S how much food I'm talking about. 3-4 times a week. Each animal.
This isn't a problem at first when they're small, esp if you have access to a high protein mysis like Piscene Energetics mysis. But that stuff does come with a cost in nutrients into the system. And it does compound to that 1 oz per feeding within a year keeping the sucker. You could always euthenize once they got to a certain size, but many people aren't comfortable with that. So keep it in mind that you're going to grow that fish before you ever bother him in coming home with you
In the past, I've relied heavily on frozen foods such as P.E. mysis, Hikari bloodworms and mysis (smaler size of shrimp for the smaller guys) and krill a couple times a week.
I've been experimenting with other prepared foods since Brian mentioned having success with the Carnivore Pellets and in trying to use a prepared food to saturate my minnows. I've been very happy with the HBH line of foods, and find that everyone except the darters are happy to take the Soft n Moist krill (the darters do get exicted tho, just can't figure it out lol) and the suckers love the Cichlid Attack small pellets, and then the Hikari carnivore pellets. I'm sure they'd switch to any prepared food, but I wouldn't ever expect to rely on it wholy. They do prefer the frozen stuff if given the option.
And as I mention "saturate", I would say this is my feeding regime... To quickly stuff greedy mouths with as much as possible (let their gluttony work for you) so they're now unable to process as much as they've grabbed, are rendered into neutral... And let the rest of the food blow around for the more retiring species to make their claim on the bounty.
Darters are easily saturated, but you might see where the minnows are a pain. If this is your first go with it, I would not include any Clinostomus, Cyprinella, Luxilus, Nocomis, Pimepheles, or Rhinicthys, or Semotilus species. I omit Phoxinus from that list, as all species are quite worth the extra to saturate. If you can't keep dace, then what's the point?
I've had success keeping them with all the above genera with the exception of the Semotilus chubs (which is part a "they're boring" thing, and part a they're just greedy-lil-punks-on-top-of-being-boring thing). So it is possible, but you better have your aquaria kung fu up to par to deal with the nutrient balancing.
And no matter how you slice this tomato... You still need an aquaria regime that can contend with a high nutrient load, and won't cycle every time you dump food in. I've been having great success over the long haul with a deep sandbed planted tank approach. I think it would be most helpful and easiest for me to pass along the pdf reprint from the American Currents:
http://www.farmertod...e_fish_tank.pdf
If you find this article useful, become a NANFA member! There's much more to AC than that!
It's also frickin' neat to watch the suckers sift through the mix of substrates... You haven't truly kept a sucker (or corydoras catfish for that matter!) until you've kept them with sand in a heavy directional current. Period.
Which gets back to Michael's last question... It's not necessary... But it sure is better lookin'!
The fish jumped because it freaked out. And they will freak out and jump, sometimes when the lights come on, sometimes because another fish did something, sometimes because they're just suckers. My 100 gallon is open top, but I have about 10 inches they have to clear, and like I've said... The big ones get big enough to bust up their noses wide open on the side glass or tops. I'm willing to bet that most fish jumps you see outside on the water are suckers that are doing this very thing.
Well, I hope you've found this helpful and instructive. I've checked the little email notification check box to remind me if anyone has anything they'd like me to clarify etc. I am just horrible about remembering to stop and look at bulletin boards, and I'm glad we've got little doo-hickeys like that now. Hopefully, some of you more technically savvy can help me turn the board into more of an extention of my email, but I had better finish my thesis before I go distracting myself like that
Todd
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
#11
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Posted 20 January 2007 - 11:26 PM
Yeah, it is. No offense, but you didn't need to quote Todd's entire book. My finger is sore from using the scroll button on my mouse so muchCan you say STICKY! Great info guys.
How about editing your post and chopping out that giant quote? We just got done scrolling through it once, why a second time just for "great info"?
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:36 PM
Todd, I would just like to add that I have been doing good with frozen cooked small cocktail shrimp. Very cheep compared to frozen fish foods and my redhose, chubsuckers and I picked up a YOY northern hog last fall, all seem to love it. I still give them some chichlid pellets, shrimp pellets and frozen bloodworms but you can't beat 10 bucks for 4lbs on the shrimp when your going through that much of it. I actually got the 12" redhorse to feed from my hand. Only once but i'll keep trying. I have been giving a lot more food since I satrted the shrimp simply because I can afford too and I thought I stunted this guy but he's begining to grow again now.
I'm not entirely sure what species this guy is, have a look and see what you think. The lateral scale count is 45 or 46 I thought it was a black but it's starting to get some red on it's tail making me think it's a shorthead. It's out of the maumee drainage not sure I remember exactly where I caught it. Probably the mainstem or the blanchard.
I'm not entirely sure what species this guy is, have a look and see what you think. The lateral scale count is 45 or 46 I thought it was a black but it's starting to get some red on it's tail making me think it's a shorthead. It's out of the maumee drainage not sure I remember exactly where I caught it. Probably the mainstem or the blanchard.
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 12:55 PM
Hey Brian,
The shrimp is an EXCELLENT idea. Any particular reason to cook them?
I'm curious as well as to how much salt will build up in them from eating the shrimp. At any rate, that's a much less expensive base than krill (which I haven't seen the effect of over use of krill with suckers, but I have seen it have deleterious effects on sunfish), a lot more "meat per chitin".
I think you've also found how much food is required to keep these guys in business. Like I said, they're like redtailed catfish... Either they're growing or they're dead. Certainly not as graphic as that, but you get the idea. If we can get the cost down, a lot more people can begin to enjoy this fantastic group of fishes. They really change the context of our aquariums to more acurately reflect the wild, as I feel strongly that they're a keystone species in the wild, for proper ecosystem function.
And they do get really tame with time. That's why I was so suprised when I moved all the minnows and darters and discovered the whole "needs eyes" aspect. I wasn't kidding about my "pets"
As for an identification... Is the tail red or slate? I can't tell. Your fish has more of the golden/black look in his snout, but really to insure an ID, it'd be best to see a head, lip and macro shot of some scales along the lateral line (for margin colors and shapes). Moxostoma is a PAIN to ID, and I'm totally in awe of folks like Dave Neely who can just glance at it and ID it and come up with the same answer I key out lol. Hopefully I'll have similar ID kung foo some day
Todd
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
Todd, I would just like to add that I have been doing good with frozen cooked small cocktail shrimp.
I'm not entirely sure what species this guy is,
The shrimp is an EXCELLENT idea. Any particular reason to cook them?
I'm curious as well as to how much salt will build up in them from eating the shrimp. At any rate, that's a much less expensive base than krill (which I haven't seen the effect of over use of krill with suckers, but I have seen it have deleterious effects on sunfish), a lot more "meat per chitin".
I think you've also found how much food is required to keep these guys in business. Like I said, they're like redtailed catfish... Either they're growing or they're dead. Certainly not as graphic as that, but you get the idea. If we can get the cost down, a lot more people can begin to enjoy this fantastic group of fishes. They really change the context of our aquariums to more acurately reflect the wild, as I feel strongly that they're a keystone species in the wild, for proper ecosystem function.
And they do get really tame with time. That's why I was so suprised when I moved all the minnows and darters and discovered the whole "needs eyes" aspect. I wasn't kidding about my "pets"
As for an identification... Is the tail red or slate? I can't tell. Your fish has more of the golden/black look in his snout, but really to insure an ID, it'd be best to see a head, lip and macro shot of some scales along the lateral line (for margin colors and shapes). Moxostoma is a PAIN to ID, and I'm totally in awe of folks like Dave Neely who can just glance at it and ID it and come up with the same answer I key out lol. Hopefully I'll have similar ID kung foo some day
Todd
The Muddy Maumee Madness, Toledo, OH
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.
http://www.farmertodd.com
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 01:51 PM
The tail used to be very slate clolored but with age it has developed a red edge to it.
It's most likely golden/black then. The entire tail on a shorthead is always pink and goes to RED. Also, the reds appear well in our aquariums due to the dominance of reds and yellows in our lighting, and the blue hues that make up the slate color could be lacking, revealing more of the red.
If I remember right (I have to look still), that's a golden (look in Fishes of Ohio). The head is supposedly more deep bodied on the black, but without having a golden right there with it, I can't see the difference yet.
It could also be a silver, but I've yet to see one, and I'm not much for believing that the few they've "found" in the Maumee mainstem, with their absence from the better streams (Blanchard, Auglaize, St Marys), which consequently get the better boat crews, in the OEPA data.
But like you say... It ain't worth harrassing a fish to find out what it is. "Cool" is always a categorization I can sleep well at night with
Todd
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 02:16 PM
Well the scale count is too high for a golden (39-42 extremes 37-44) it has to be a black (44-47 extremes 42-49) or shorthead ( 40-42 and extreme of 40-47) as far as that goes. The tail has never been bright red so I think I'm back to what I originally thought, which is a black. I have seen a few silvers from the sandusky and they look prety different. We also get some greaters fairly often in the sandusky and even the ocasional River redhorse now those last two have a very bright red tail!
#18
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 02:28 PM
some pics...
these are of two greater redhoarse we got back when I was an undergrad at heidelberg out of honeycreek
[attachment=3080:attachment]
[attachment=3079:attachment]
This one took a olive wooly bugger on my fly rod, another greater in honey creek it was 23"! nice fight on a 2 weight!
[attachment=3078:attachment]
This is a silver from lower honey creek
[attachment=3081:attachment]
these are of two greater redhoarse we got back when I was an undergrad at heidelberg out of honeycreek
[attachment=3080:attachment]
[attachment=3079:attachment]
This one took a olive wooly bugger on my fly rod, another greater in honey creek it was 23"! nice fight on a 2 weight!
[attachment=3078:attachment]
This is a silver from lower honey creek
[attachment=3081:attachment]
#19
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 02:45 PM
Great pics! I'm looking forward to doing work in the Sandusky. We've got some proposals in with your old gang at Heidelberg to run my ditch sample design on the various ag treatments done in Honey Creek as well as other tribs. Hopefully US EPA will accept the proposal. I don't think Dr. Baker gets told "no" very often though
The tail on a large shorthead is "burn your eyes out" red as well. I thought I had post them with my shorthead pics in the members gallery, but apparently, I left the tail shot off. Well shucks.
Man, to find the former in the Maumee... We need to get permits for bag seines in MI and go up to the West Branch of the St. Joe, and the upper Tiffin. Pirate perch, redside dace, chubsuckers, etc etc etc.
And I know it's Moxostoma galore as well. Be nice to have another set of trained eyes with me
Todd
The tail on a large shorthead is "burn your eyes out" red as well. I thought I had post them with my shorthead pics in the members gallery, but apparently, I left the tail shot off. Well shucks.
Man, to find the former in the Maumee... We need to get permits for bag seines in MI and go up to the West Branch of the St. Joe, and the upper Tiffin. Pirate perch, redside dace, chubsuckers, etc etc etc.
And I know it's Moxostoma galore as well. Be nice to have another set of trained eyes with me
Todd
#20
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Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:46 PM
the silver and the two greaters that were not caught hook and line were taking in lower honey creek along with 20 or so very large spotted suckers. Dr. Ken Baker (not Dave Baker I think thats who your refering too) and I did some eclectroshocking in lower honey creek. We also did the blanchard in Findlay where that one little boat ramp is right along the road with no parking. We didn't see the moxostoma there but there were again lots of realy large spotted suckers.
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