What kind of sunfish is this? Thanks
Started by
Guest_Gambusia_*
, Dec 20 2006 07:26 PM
26 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 07:30 PM
Looks like a green to me, but it is difficult to really be sure from that shot.
#4
Guest_dredcon_*
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 07:50 PM
Do you have a pic from directly above the fish?
#5
Guest_Gambusia_*
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 07:53 PM
No those are it.
The fish died
I caught it a few days ago out of a lake near Asheville, NC.
The fish died
I caught it a few days ago out of a lake near Asheville, NC.
#6
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 08:05 PM
Oh well, I agree with dsmith73. That fish shows some green sunfish characteristics. You did'nt happen to look at or feel the tongue did you?
#7
Guest_hmt321_*
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 09:45 PM
do greens have a tooth patch?
or were you thinking warmouth?
or were you thinking warmouth?
#8
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 09:56 PM
do greens have a tooth patch?
or were you thinking warmouth?
Your right, I think I need to lay off the chloroform.
#9
Guest_edbihary_*
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Posted 20 December 2006 - 11:27 PM
It's kind of hard to tell without the fins flared out. But what about pumpkinseed? Is there a tiny red tip on the ear flap? Is there any pattern in the fins?
#10
Guest_itsme_*
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Posted 21 December 2006 - 01:49 AM
If it's not a hybrid 
I'm going to guess Lepomis punctatus or Lepomis auritus.
I'm going to guess Lepomis punctatus or Lepomis auritus.
#11
Guest_keepnatives_*
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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:42 PM
That sure looks like a Pumpkinseed Sunfish to me. What rules that out?
#12
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Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:15 PM
That sure looks like a Pumpkinseed Sunfish to me. What rules that out?
Well, we really need some more detail to nail it down. For instance, exactly how big is this specimen and what does that tell us about its maturity. But, to my eye, the mouth is too large for a pumpkinseed. That, and the color pattern is not really right. It has a blue wash over the face, but not the bold blue vermiculations (wavy lines) of a pumpkinseed. It has a body pattern similar to a pumkinseed, but it lacks the vertical zones that divide the color on a pumpkinseed. Pumpkinseeds seem to have a checkerboard or woven look to their body colors. The pattern on this fish is reminiscent of several species, so it's confusing. Finally, the dark opercular spot seems too big for a pumpkinseed of this size, I mean in proportion to the body size. These are all very subtle characters that are hard to pin down. If we could look at the pectoral fins and gill rakers, that would help a lot. Also, I'm not sure Ashville NC is solidly in the native range of the pumpkinseed. Though, since it came from a "pond", we could guess that it could be just about anything, including a HYBRID
because of the tendency for ponds to be stocked for anglers. Anyway, here's a photo of a pumpkinseed for comparison: http://jonahsaquariu...lgibbosus03.htm That photo also shows the red opercular spot which is typical of pumpkinseeds, redears and northern longears. Some central longears have it too.Actually, the more I look at this fish, the more I want to say it's a hybrid of either macrochirus x megalotis or macrochirus x auritus.
It kind of reminds me of this specimen from Texas, which may also be a hybrid, though it's labeled as L auritus: http://jonahsaquariu...lepauritus1.htm
Check out this page for more auritus photos. I think you can see some of the traits that I'm seeing in the Ashville fish: http://jonahsaquariu...cinlauritus.htm
#13
Guest_edbihary_*
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Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:38 PM
Could be the lighting, or individuality of the fish.It has a blue wash over the face, but not the bold blue vermiculations (wavy lines) of a pumpkinseed.
My pumpkinseeds gain or lose this pattern, depending on their moods. The coloration of most fish varies with moods. Since this fish is dead, it's probably not in a very good mood.It has a body pattern similar to a pumkinseed, but it lacks the vertical zones that divide the color on a pumpkinseed. Pumpkinseeds seem to have a checkerboard or woven look to their body colors.
On one of my pumpkinseeds, this red tip is so small you have to look close up to see it. I think that is typical of a female, correct? That is why I asked if it is present, because it can be difficult to see. It is true that the ear flap on this fish seems a little long for a pumpkinseed, but that could be individuality or regional variation.... the red opercular spot which is typical of pumpkinseeds, redears and northern longears.
The map in Peterson's Field Guide shows virtually all of North Carolina being in pumpkinseed turf.
Gambusia, maybe you can spread out the fins and take another shot. Pattern on the fins should settle the question.
#14
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Posted 21 December 2006 - 09:03 PM
Yes, it does look like Ashville is in their range. Does anyone have photos of pumpkinseeds from North Carolina? I must admit I have never seen pumpkinseeds from that far south. Maybe they look different from the northern ones. Anyway, I still don't think it's a pumpkinseed. It's a hybrid!!! 
#15
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Posted 22 December 2006 - 12:15 AM
I posted last night, but must have not submitted it correctly.
Or I was just worried that Irate might be driving to the marsh looking for me.
This fish looks nearly identical to hybrid greensunfish bluegills I have seen, both in the wild and fingerlings offered for stocking ponds. Pumpkinseed greensunfish have the blue vermiculations on the cheek, and look a lot like a longear.
The ear is definatly green sunfish, well, its possible to be a few others, but that is a common look to ears of sunfish with green in them.
I caught a "greengill" once and swore it was a redspotted sunfish. About 500 miles as the crow flies to the nearest population of them, but it sure did. After I got it home and looked it over it became real apparent.
Don't tell Irate I said any of this, ok!
Or I was just worried that Irate might be driving to the marsh looking for me.
This fish looks nearly identical to hybrid greensunfish bluegills I have seen, both in the wild and fingerlings offered for stocking ponds. Pumpkinseed greensunfish have the blue vermiculations on the cheek, and look a lot like a longear.
The ear is definatly green sunfish, well, its possible to be a few others, but that is a common look to ears of sunfish with green in them.
I caught a "greengill" once and swore it was a redspotted sunfish. About 500 miles as the crow flies to the nearest population of them, but it sure did. After I got it home and looked it over it became real apparent.
Don't tell Irate I said any of this, ok!
#16
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Posted 22 December 2006 - 12:30 AM
[quote name='choupique' date='Dec 22 2006, 05:15 AM' post='6273']
This fish looks nearly identical to hybrid greensunfish bluegills I have seen, both in the wild and fingerlings offered for stocking ponds...
Ha! I knew it! Hybrid! Hybrid! Yes! Yesss! Take that you hybrid-denying-species-bigots!
Yeah, that does make sense being it was a pond fish. Likely stocked. Or the offspring of stocked fish with a native species or the mixing of stocked species.
Hybrid!
This fish looks nearly identical to hybrid greensunfish bluegills I have seen, both in the wild and fingerlings offered for stocking ponds...
Ha! I knew it! Hybrid! Hybrid! Yes! Yesss! Take that you hybrid-denying-species-bigots!
Yeah, that does make sense being it was a pond fish. Likely stocked. Or the offspring of stocked fish with a native species or the mixing of stocked species.
Hybrid!
#17
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Posted 22 December 2006 - 12:49 AM
Maybe Irate will take so much money to go to CA to hunt you down, he will be to wore out to come after me.
Here is a recipe to create a hybrid in an aquarium. Get a pair of green sunfish. Spawn them, its not really hard. Once you get fry from them, you know both parents a fertile and in the mood. For greens that is just above room temp, lights for more than 12 hours a day, and keep them stuffed. The last ingredient for this part is not hard, greens eat anything. Greens so conditioned will spawn about every five to seven days on average as long as conditions are constant.
Next get any lepomis ( or chaenobryttus if you prefer to split). Set up a tank with a male Lepomis in one, and the male green in the other. Fatten and prep your non green male lepomis, and your male green. Fatten the females in another tank(s). Then add the ripe females to the tanks with the males that have dug nests. They should spawn before the male kills the female
. Next wait, and hatch the eggs, and you will have hybrids!
The reason this works, greens seem to spawn with any lepomis with fins, no matter if it is a male or a female. I base this on 90% of hybrids I have seen in the wild and in my ponds have a green sunfish for one of their parents.
Here is a recipe to create a hybrid in an aquarium. Get a pair of green sunfish. Spawn them, its not really hard. Once you get fry from them, you know both parents a fertile and in the mood. For greens that is just above room temp, lights for more than 12 hours a day, and keep them stuffed. The last ingredient for this part is not hard, greens eat anything. Greens so conditioned will spawn about every five to seven days on average as long as conditions are constant.
Next get any lepomis ( or chaenobryttus if you prefer to split). Set up a tank with a male Lepomis in one, and the male green in the other. Fatten and prep your non green male lepomis, and your male green. Fatten the females in another tank(s). Then add the ripe females to the tanks with the males that have dug nests. They should spawn before the male kills the female
. Next wait, and hatch the eggs, and you will have hybrids!The reason this works, greens seem to spawn with any lepomis with fins, no matter if it is a male or a female. I base this on 90% of hybrids I have seen in the wild and in my ponds have a green sunfish for one of their parents.
#18
Guest_Gambusia_*
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Posted 22 December 2006 - 02:36 PM
I catch bluegills and greens out of the same spot plus ones colored like the one in the picture.
There are also redears in the lake and maybe some other species.
I had to get rid of this fish as he didn't make it.
I've had green/bluegill hybrids before (from the hatchery) and I guess this could be one.
I never catch any big sunfish maybe 2-5" max.
There are also redears in the lake and maybe some other species.
I had to get rid of this fish as he didn't make it.
I've had green/bluegill hybrids before (from the hatchery) and I guess this could be one.
I never catch any big sunfish maybe 2-5" max.
#19
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 22 December 2006 - 08:14 PM
Don't tell Irate I said any of this, ok!
Huh, were you guys saying something? I wasn't paying attention...
#20
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Posted 24 December 2006 - 09:30 PM
Huh, were you guys saying something? I wasn't paying attention...
Uhhhh, I said that there is no such things as hybrids.
That is my story and I am sticking to it. 
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