ID confirmation?

Just looking for an ID confirmation as I'm wrong allot of the time
Cyprinella lutrensis?

and
Gray Red Horse (Moxostoma congestum)?

Thanks,
Jason

The first fish is a red shiner, while the second seems to be a white sucker.

The first fish is a red shiner, while the second seems to be a white sucker.

Umm, Bruce, you have special knack with stonerollers, don't you...?

I agree the first fish is a red shiner, second one is a stoneroller.

Out of curiosity, where did they come from?

Both from the Frio River near Leakey, TX. Thanks for the ID's guys!

Umm, Bruce, you have special knack with stonerollers, don't you...?

Yeah, nothing but special knack.

I thought it was a weird looking red shiner... It's Cyprinella lepida, the plateau shiner. I was just out there about a little over a month ago and slept on the riverbank at Leakey. You'll also find tons of Dionda serena and Ictalurus lupus, headwqater catfish, out there.

On the plateau shiner, look at the mouth, it's a little different than a red's and is a little subinferior. They also won't be as deep bodied as a typical red. It's tough to tell apart unless you know what you looking for. If you kept going over and jumped in the Upper Nueces (same drainage) you would have caught the Cyprinella sp. That looks like a deeper bodied plateau shiner that doesn't get nuptial tubercles.

The Nueces is an awesome basin because its understudied and overflowing with endemics. It's also a beautiful place, especially when flows are up and it's all connected. When it's like that it's easier to get more than just your knees wet. The above fish is also the reason why you should never take red shiners as bait from the Lower Nueces or the San Antonio and use the (and dump them) in the upper subbasins of the Nueces drainage.

Nice catch, and nice pics, BTW.

Edited by rjmtx, 28 July 2009 - 08:38 AM.

I thought it was a weird looking red shiner... It's Cyprinella lepida, the plateau shiner. I was just out there about a little over a month ago and slept on the riverbank at Leakey. You'll also find tons of Dionda serena and Ictalurus lupus, headwqater catfish, out there.

On the plateau shiner, look at the mouth, it's a little different than a red's and is a little subinferior. They also won't be as deep bodied as a typical red. It's tough to tell apart unless you know what you looking for. If you kept going over and jumped in the Upper Nueces (same drainage) you would have caught the Cyprinella sp. That looks like a deeper bodied plateau shiner that doesn't get nuptial tubercles.

The Nueces is an awesome basin because its understudied and overflowing with endemics. It's also a beautiful place, especially when flows are up and it's all connected. When it's like that it's easier to get more than just your knees wet. The above fish is also the reason why you should never take red shiners as bait from the Lower Nueces or the San Antonio and use the (and dump them) in the upper subbasins of the Nueces drainage.

Nice catch, and nice pics, BTW.

Well, then its official, I'm 0-2 on this go round Very interesting to know. I caught another very small spps as well but as of yet, I haven't been able to get a decent photo of it. When I do, I'll post it. I've been through all the guides and haven't been able to find anything that looks like it. It very well could be just juvenile coloration. Thanks, I corrected the ID on on the shiner on my flickr page. If I knew your name, I'd credit you for the ID

Here are some tips for the Frio-

Small Dionda serena (Nueces roundnose minnows) look a lot like Campostoma anomalum. The stonerollers will have a distinct cartilaginous ridge on their lower lip as well as a slightly different mouth type. Stonerollers' intestines wrap around the air bladder, while in Dionda, it spirals ventral to the air bladder (not surrounding it). Large Dionda will get replacement scales like stonerollers.

Another common fish you'll catch out there is the Texas shiner, Notropis amabilis. It'll have a long, slender body, huge eyes, and wears black lipstick. They have a bluish color when you stand on the bank and watch them at the top of the water.

Look at the catfish you catch. If they're extra spotty, they might be a headwater cat. The Etheostoma out there are greenthroats, and the suckers are mostly gray redhorses. You might also run into river carpsuckers and buffalo, but I don't remember ever catching any in the upper parts of the basin. Mexican tetras are abundant in some areas, and they are also native there. You see them introduced all over the state, but they actually belong there. Rio Grande cichlids are also abundant, but wiley and tough to catch. Also, there is a pure strain of Guadalupe bass out there that was stocked because there are no native Micropterus species other than salmoides and TPWD never dumped smallmouths out there. The basin's kind of a refuge just in case the hybridization in other rivers gets out of hand.

Are you from around there, or just made a trip?

Oh, and my name's Robby Maxwell. What's your flickr account?

Edited by rjmtx, 28 July 2009 - 02:56 PM.

Here are some tips for the Frio-

Small Dionda serena (Nueces roundnose minnows) look a lot like Campostoma anomalum. The stonerollers will have a distinct cartilaginous ridge on their lower lip as well as a slightly different mouth type. Stonerollers' intestines wrap around the air bladder, while in Dionda, it spirals ventral to the air bladder (not surrounding it). Large Dionda will get replacement scales like stonerollers.

Another common fish you'll catch out there is the Texas shiner, Notropis amabilis. It'll have a long, slender body, huge eyes, and wears black lipstick. They have a bluish color when you stand on the bank and watch them at the top of the water.

Look at the catfish you catch. If they're extra spotty, they might be a headwater cat. The Etheostoma out there are greenthroats, and the suckers are mostly gray redhorses. You might also run into river carpsuckers and buffalo, but I don't remember ever catching any in the upper parts of the basin. Mexican tetras are abundant in some areas, and they are also native there. You see them introduced all over the state, but they actually belong there. Rio Grande cichlids are also abundant, but wiley and tough to catch. Also, there is a pure strain of Guadalupe bass out there that was stocked because there are no native Micropterus species other than salmoides and TPWD never dumped smallmouths out there. The basin's kind of a refuge just in case the hybridization in other rivers gets out of hand.

Are you from around there, or just made a trip?

Oh, and my name's Robby Maxwell. What's your flickr account?

I'm from Uvalde and the flickr is www.flickr.com/centavo . Lots of interesting stuff in the rivers. We spend lots of time in the summer snorkeling in the Frio and Nueces. I've picked up a few Etheostoma while out and about in the frio and nueces but never keep them. I'd like to have a dedicated (planted) spps aqaurium for them. I picked up a Rio Grande Cichlid in Pinto Creek near Brackettville four years ago and kept him until just last week. I think he succumed to old age. He was the biggest/prettiest TX that I have ever seen. I measured him when he died at just over 13 inches. This is him RIP

JP