Hey everyone. New to the site and was directed over here by one of the cichlid forums I belong to. I currently have a 55 gallon African tank and I am moving soon. Africans don't really do it for me as I want a more natural look. I have been looking through the gallery here and would LOVE to start a planted native tank in my 55. I do have a sunfish in my 20L that is only about 2 inches that I snagged this past weekend and is doing fine. I cannot tell which kind it is. But I was wondering if you guys can lead me into the right direction as to where to start with a native tank. As far as I know a few places I fish at are stocked with catfish, sunnys, minnows, bass. What can I fit into my 55 gallon comfortably? If it helps to know what area I am located in, it is Philadelphia. Thanks for your help!\
Mike
Hello
Started by
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, Aug 20 2009 04:19 PM
31 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 05:40 PM
In my experience, you're going to have even more fun catching fish for your tank than you are keeping them in there. I usually try to stick with smaller fish, since you can fit more in a tank. A 55 can support a bunch of species if you stick with smaller darters and minnows, while if you stick a bass in there it will eat everything else and then die unhappy when it grows too big.
My advice is to get a good net, go out to smaller creeks in your area and thrash around in the weeds to see what you come up with. It's a good idea not to keep anything until the second trip, so you can figure out what everything you saw was, and if it's appropriate for your tank. Catfish, for example, range in adult size from 3 inches to... several feet longer than that tank.
My advice is to get a good net, go out to smaller creeks in your area and thrash around in the weeds to see what you come up with. It's a good idea not to keep anything until the second trip, so you can figure out what everything you saw was, and if it's appropriate for your tank. Catfish, for example, range in adult size from 3 inches to... several feet longer than that tank.
#3
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:15 PM
sounds good to me. I was thinking of trading the cichlids in for some store credit. as far as driftwood and everything can i take things from the creeks? or is it the same as a regular tank to buy from a store? i'd love to try a planted tank also. I figured since I am moving and can disassemble the whole tank and start over. so I will have the tank running while i search for some fish. Is there a site or somewhere that lists what kind of fish are in my area? I think this is going to be a very fun tank. plus its mostly all free too
#4
Guest_schambers_*
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:31 PM
Find your watershed on this map, and you can get a list of fish that may be found near you. You won't find all the fish at every location, different habitats will have different fish living there. I really enjoy learning about the fish that live near me, it adds a new dimension to the fish keeping hobby.
Natureserve Distribution of Native U.S. Fishes by Watershed
Natureserve Distribution of Native U.S. Fishes by Watershed
#5
Guest_sonix215_*
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:44 PM
Find your watershed on this map, and you can get a list of fish that may be found near you. You won't find all the fish at every location, different habitats will have different fish living there. I really enjoy learning about the fish that live near me, it adds a new dimension to the fish keeping hobby.
Natureserve Distribution of Native U.S. Fishes by Watershed
Hey thanks for the site. The one spot I fish at is actually located right next to one of the watersheds located on the map. A lot of useful information there.. im thinkin i could probably stock A LOT of minnows. how many for a 55 gallon tank?
#6
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Posted 20 August 2009 - 08:07 PM
sonix215,
The one inch of fish per gallon of water is a good rule to follow in stocking. If you get any larger minnows, you may want to be more conservative with your estimate (less fish per gallon). Also, welcome to the forum! I hope that you find your stay both enjoyable and informative!
Brian
The one inch of fish per gallon of water is a good rule to follow in stocking. If you get any larger minnows, you may want to be more conservative with your estimate (less fish per gallon). Also, welcome to the forum! I hope that you find your stay both enjoyable and informative!
Brian
#7
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:16 AM
Another good reason to research before bringing something home is that some fish will surprise you with their level of aggressiveness or pickiness about food. Plenty of people have lost prized fish to an unexpected pair of nesting convicts, or discovered too late that seahorses don't eat flake. The problem is multiplied with natives because at least with tropicals the breeders and retailers filter out the really undesirable species. Here it's all do it yourself.
Also, I suggest reading through NANFA's guidelines on collecting wild fish: http://forum.nanfa.o...lly-collecting/
Also, I suggest reading through NANFA's guidelines on collecting wild fish: http://forum.nanfa.o...lly-collecting/
#8
Guest_dmarkley_*
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:26 AM
Hi Mike, I am over in Lancaster County. I'd hazard a guess that your sunny is a pumpkinseed or a bluegill.Hey everyone. New to the site and was directed over here by one of the cichlid forums I belong to. I currently have a 55 gallon African tank and I am moving soon. Africans don't really do it for me as I want a more natural look. I have been looking through the gallery here and would LOVE to start a planted native tank in my 55. I do have a sunfish in my 20L that is only about 2 inches that I snagged this past weekend and is doing fine. I cannot tell which kind it is. But I was wondering if you guys can lead me into the right direction as to where to start with a native tank. As far as I know a few places I fish at are stocked with catfish, sunnys, minnows, bass. What can I fit into my 55 gallon comfortably? If it helps to know what area I am located in, it is Philadelphia. Thanks for your help!\
Mike
Dean
#9
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 02:35 PM
I am not really sure I know we have bluegill over this way and I think they are called "Redbreast" sunfish. I think I would like to stock sunfish and minnows. Are there any small sunfish? or maybe just an all minnow tank? like darters or something? I'm still learning so bear with me. I always thought native fish were dirty fish but when you really look at them they are as pretty as africans. Do any of you have any advice on turning my tank over to a planted tank? I will provide a picture of the tank as of now which hold some africans.Hi Mike, I am over in Lancaster County. I'd hazard a guess that your sunny is a pumpkinseed or a bluegill.
Dean
#10
Guest_khudgins_*
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 02:51 PM
It's a real good setup to start. To plant the tank, it all depends on exactly how 'native' you want to go. To you want all native plants as well? And if so, do you want a true 'biotope' tank in which everything in the tank came from the same stream? If that's the case, just go down to the creek and take photos. Get references, and learn about your local plants and fish. Take your time and have fun while you're at it.
There's TONS of native aquatic plants that work well, although some have seasonal attributes that make them more like 'annuals' in your tank. (And now I've reached the limit of my knowledge of native aquatic plants! One area I'm looking to learn. Anyone have good references we can add into this thread?)
To add plants, all you need to do is get them and put them in. Make sure you have enough lighting, and you're in good shape. With your current tank, I'd suggest some rooted plants like Echinodorus sp. (sword plants) for big foliage and Anubias sp. tied to your rock work for some flavor. Maybe some stem plants (Cabomba caroliniana or Bacopa sp. are native, although not to your area, and are nice) in the back as well.
On a 55, a standard 2-bulb shop light is gracious plenty if you're not planning on doing fancy stuff like CO2 injection or expensive plant substrates. TBH, a bucket of dirt from your yard makes a great plant substrate, as long as you're not doing a lot of pest control or fertilization there.
For the fish, I'm a big fan of sunfish - although bluegill and redbreast can get pretty big, so I'd limit them to no more than 3 or 4 in a 55. Pumpkinseeds stay a little smaller, so you *may* be okay with as many as 6, but I've never kept them.
Again, do some research about your local fish and learn which ones motor your boat. If they're tank-appropriate, then you can piece together the perfect tank for your interests. And ask questions - we've got folks here who know our natives far, far better than I ever will, and they're nice folks. There's no better resource than this organization to help you get your plans together.
There's TONS of native aquatic plants that work well, although some have seasonal attributes that make them more like 'annuals' in your tank. (And now I've reached the limit of my knowledge of native aquatic plants! One area I'm looking to learn. Anyone have good references we can add into this thread?)
To add plants, all you need to do is get them and put them in. Make sure you have enough lighting, and you're in good shape. With your current tank, I'd suggest some rooted plants like Echinodorus sp. (sword plants) for big foliage and Anubias sp. tied to your rock work for some flavor. Maybe some stem plants (Cabomba caroliniana or Bacopa sp. are native, although not to your area, and are nice) in the back as well.
On a 55, a standard 2-bulb shop light is gracious plenty if you're not planning on doing fancy stuff like CO2 injection or expensive plant substrates. TBH, a bucket of dirt from your yard makes a great plant substrate, as long as you're not doing a lot of pest control or fertilization there.
For the fish, I'm a big fan of sunfish - although bluegill and redbreast can get pretty big, so I'd limit them to no more than 3 or 4 in a 55. Pumpkinseeds stay a little smaller, so you *may* be okay with as many as 6, but I've never kept them.
Again, do some research about your local fish and learn which ones motor your boat. If they're tank-appropriate, then you can piece together the perfect tank for your interests. And ask questions - we've got folks here who know our natives far, far better than I ever will, and they're nice folks. There's no better resource than this organization to help you get your plans together.
#12
Guest_sonix215_*
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 03:09 PM
That all sounds good to me. I was thinking of maybe just buying the plants. How would you go about putting native plants in the tank if they carry a disease? or does that not matter in a native tank? I am really looking forward to doing this. So to get this straight all darters and shiners and chubs are types of minnows?
#13
Guest_gzeiger_*
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 03:17 PM
Biologically speaking, lots of what you're going to catch are not minnows, but for legal purposes they are 
If not endangered, darters and shiners are generally regulated as bait fish.
I usually don't worry about diseases on my plants because I get them from the same water the fish come from, but if that doesn't apply to your situation you can treat native plants the same way you do tropicals, with quarantine and bleach or alum dip as you feel necessary.
If not endangered, darters and shiners are generally regulated as bait fish.I usually don't worry about diseases on my plants because I get them from the same water the fish come from, but if that doesn't apply to your situation you can treat native plants the same way you do tropicals, with quarantine and bleach or alum dip as you feel necessary.
#14
Guest_schambers_*
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Posted 21 August 2009 - 05:32 PM
I buy plants at my local fish store or trade with friends, I don't care if my tank is 100% native. You can collect your own plants, too. I would collect a small amount and try it to see if it grows well in your tank. I don't think you have to worry about disease from plants. The worst thing I've ever gotten from a plant was snails. Plants often have snail eggs or tiny snails on them. I fought the snails unsuccessfully for a while and then learned to like them.
#15
Guest_BTDarters_*
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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:26 PM
sonix215,
If you're worried about diseases, quarantine your fish and treat them with Parasite Clear by Jungle Labs. That will remove any internal and external parasites on the fish. It's what I use to treat all of my fish and I think it's a good preventative treatment to use.
Brian
If you're worried about diseases, quarantine your fish and treat them with Parasite Clear by Jungle Labs. That will remove any internal and external parasites on the fish. It's what I use to treat all of my fish and I think it's a good preventative treatment to use.
Brian
#16
Guest_sonix215_*
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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:28 PM
alright well the 55 gallon will be ready to start setting up around september sometime. As for now the sunny in my 20L is actually doing quite well better than I had expected. I thought for sure I was going to lose him/her the first day. But it's been over a week and still living. At first I fed him pieces of worms and never saw him/her eat flake. Until today I just got home from work and threw some food in the tank for the danios and white clouds and caught the sunny eating the flake so thats a good sign. Can any of you tell me some nice plants or moss to grow over rocks? I have a bunch of lava rocks in the african tanks that I can use instead of getting new river rock.
so thats a good sign. Can any of you tell me some nice plants or moss to grow over rocks? I have a bunch of lava rocks in the african tanks that I can use instead of getting new river rock.
#17
Guest_Gene2308_*
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Posted 23 August 2009 - 08:32 AM
Can any of you tell me some nice plants or moss to grow over rocks?
Sure, java moss is extremely easy to keep and you can tie it around stuff with fishing line, clips, etc. You may end up with WAY more of it than you want though.
Lava rock works just fine - if you like it, use it. You can also just field collect local rocks from the areas you catch your natives for a more natural look. I like to get multiple sizes of rocks for a natural look. I just rinse them off - other people like to boil, bake, soak in dilute vinegar solution, etc., but I have never had any problems with field rock so I don't. I wouldn't discourage it though.
People on this site give great advice, all you do is mold everyone's take on something and find your own way.
BTDarters gave a good bit about using quarantine and pretreatment for parasites. This is especially true if your local fish are prone to external parasites -- not a bad idea. That being said, I have really never pretreated my tanks for parasites and usually just let things "run their course" since it is no biggie if I lose a couple of fish.
If I ran an operation where I wanted to maximize my survivorship though (like keeping darters) I would definitely pretreat I suspect.
#18
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Posted 24 August 2009 - 07:56 AM
If you think the fish is pretty, it's not a bluegill. Redbreast sunfish are beautiful even at that small size though.
I've found three types of plants do well in my unheated tank. Java fern, "onion" and giant vallisneria. All are available from LFS. If you'd like, I can harvest some java fern for you, I've got LOTS. If you look in local waters, you may find a close equivalent to giant val. This grows well but is indeed seasonal.
Dean
#20
Guest_sonix215_*
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Posted 27 August 2009 - 07:19 PM
figured ill just keep my thread going. I went out today with my net hoping to scoop up random types of fish. Im pretty sure I got 2 redbreast sunnies since thats the only kind in the place I went to. And 2 bass. All of the fish caught were only about an inch big if that. Do baby bass have black vertical barring?
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