Shold you treat wild caught fish for parasites and fungus? And pic of my first tank since I was a kid.

I plan on catching some madtoms and darters from my local rivers and was wondering if I should treat them for parasites and fungus after I catch them as a preventative measure. I bought some ick away that says it treats both parasites and fungus.

On another note...heres a pic of my 10g I bought off craigs list yesterday for 25 bucks. Came with filter, hood/light, air pump, and aquarium all almost new. Was going to get a 55g but put it off for a month or two to try and find a good deal on a whole setup. So for now I got this so I can keep anything I catch, and in the future i can use it for other stuff. Thanks for any help and advice and more pics to cone soon!

Edited by jamez, 02 September 2009 - 05:16 AM.

it is a good idea to treat the tank. although, since you just purchased the tank i'm assuming that it is not cycled yet? Before collection make sure your tank is cycled and your water parameters are correct. Parasite clear by Jungle labs is also a good product which can be found at most LFS's. It can take anywhere between 3-5 weeks for the tank to go through its cycle. So maybe within that time period go search your rivers/streams and see what is available to you

You will probably get some opinions both ways on this question, but I will give you mine as well. Unless I notice any obvious signs of illness, I never add chemicals in my tanks. I can't remember the last time I have used a chemical to treat my tanks....not that I am morally against chemical use (some folks are), but I just don't see it as a necessary thing and I am too lazy to be honest.

Remember to cycle your tank before adding fish! An uncycled tank will kill fish faster than any potential parasite or disease.

Gene's right, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Keep a light fish population in a cycle tank and you shouldn't have problems, if your wild-caught fish were handled too roughly.

I usually don't treat with medications because they usually don't work for me. I nearly always quarantine fish for at least a week. Low cost alternatives that I use if I think fish are harboring something is a teaspoon of sodium chloride per gallon for a few days, or dosing the tank down with drugstore hydrogen peroxide. I forget the proportions, but if you search this site, you'll find dosing info. Not only does H2O2 kill algae, it can also knock out surface pathogens on the fish. I wouldn't use it on fish that don't have scales, however, (LIKE MADTOMS.)

The neat thing about madtoms is that they're generally pretty tough and tend not to harbor infectious bugs. (Remember, though, that there are exceptions to everything, so it's best to quarantine.)

From time to time, I will give my new fish a highly concentrated salt dip before adding them to the aquarium. I should probably do it more often, but I forget.

IMO the important time to treat is while collecting, especially in soft water and/or warm weather. I add salt (1 teasp/gal) or a bait-saver mix in the collecting bucket before catching fish. Ive also used Jungle Binox (= salt + nitrofurazone) to guard against Flexibacter (aka columnaris, tail rot): that's the most common problem I run into with newly caught fish, especially on Lythrurus shiners and Enneacanthus sunfish. H2O2 peroxide(3% drugstore strength, 1 to 2 ml/gal) might also work against Flexibacter instead of antibiotics - i havent tried. If you treat in the field, then no need to mess up your cycled tank with meds.

From time to time, I will give my new fish a highly concentrated salt dip before adding them to the aquarium. I should probably do it more often, but I forget.

Hi Bob - no offense intended, but your statement below suggests that either 1) you're using the wrong meds, 2) you're treating too late, after illness is too advanced, or 3) poor water qual or other factors are making it impossible for the stressed fish to recover. Its tricky to avoid causing ammonia & nitrite problems when using meds that suppress nitrifying bacteria.

>> Bob wrote: "I usually don't treat with medications because they usually don't work for me"

personally i don not treat my new fish for anything, I dont even QT them, ive necer had a problem except one time i had ammonia spike from addong to many fish. Simpally, if you catch a fish that looks like it has a problem dont bring it home.

Wild caught fish naturally possess quite a number of parasites and most of them cause little to no harm to the host. That being said, I'd leave them there. I'm not sure what effect salt has on parasites--I hear people saying that it gives them a good osmotic shock and kills them, but I would tend to refute this as there is limited evidence on the matter. Only in rare cases would your caught fish have significant enough parasite loads to kill them. This won't make me popular, but if your fish are dyin' it's probably you and not the parasites. Just sayin'

And as another note, I can't see salt being good for madtoms. Anyone with evidence to the contrary?

Edited by AndrewAcropora, 02 September 2009 - 06:25 PM.

Thanks for all the responses. I ended up taking the ick away back to the store and figured I would just leave the sick looking ones in the field should I come across any. I am new to all this and am glad yall mentioned cycling (something I had no clue about) so I went to my local pet shop and picked up some of that seachem stability and added that along with some rock from the local creek I collected from today. Here is the link to my trip today to my local creek and what I brought back...
http://forum.nanfa.o...rium-ne-kansas/

Very true Andrew, but once those fish with a naturally low parasite load are confined in an aquarium, the parasites can increase way faster than in nature bcuz way more of the parasite's offspring can find a host quickly. But that happens a week to several weeks later. The more immediate problem for me is bacterial or fungal infections during the first few days. The amount of salt I use for collecting and transport (1 teasp/gal) won't kill parasites or fungi, and i dont think its enough to harm catfish either. It's just to reduce body salt loss, since small fish when frightened/stressed can quickly lose salts and become susceptible to infections. Even the normally hardy Gambusia can have osmotic stress and die within a couple days if collected in soft, low conductivity water.

Gerald

Wild caught fish naturally possess quite a number of parasites and most of them cause little to no harm to the host. That being said, I'd leave them there. I'm not sure what effect salt has on parasites--I hear people saying that it gives them a good osmotic shock and kills them, but I would tend to refute this as there is limited evidence on the matter. Only in rare cases would your caught fish have significant enough parasite loads to kill them. This won't make me popular, but if your fish are dyin' it's probably you and not the parasites. Just sayin'

And as another note, I can't see salt being good for madtoms. Anyone with evidence to the contrary?

You're right, Gerald, that bacterial infections are the major threat to newly-caught wild fish. Andrew's right about "wormy" parasites, though, like Dactylogyrus gill flukes that we've been studying in several shiner species. What we've found is that parasite load can be dramatically higher in fish at the peak of the reproductive season, and by August drops back to low levels. If anyone has any insights into the details of Dactylogyrus life cycle drop us a line; they're hermaphrodites who produce a free-swimming larva, but we have no handle on any seasonality or length of these cycles, if any.

Wild caught fish naturally possess quite a number of parasites and most of them cause little to no harm to the host. That being said, I'd leave them there. I'm not sure what effect salt has on parasites--I hear people saying that it gives them a good osmotic shock and kills them, but I would tend to refute this as there is limited evidence on the matter. Only in rare cases would your caught fish have significant enough parasite loads to kill them. This won't make me popular, but if your fish are dyin' it's probably you and not the parasites. Just sayin'

And as another note, I can't see salt being good for madtoms. Anyone with evidence to the contrary?

I agree that Madtoms (at least Tadpole Madtoms) can be resentful of salt.
I had a couple of problem tanks that I kept at 1.011 specific gravity. I did not start at these levels and found Tadpole Madtoms began to behave unusually with abrupt changes in salinity over 1.005 SG. Tadpole Madtoms were fine as long as they were slowly brought from 1.005 to 1.011 SG. Wild Tadpole Madtoms could not be introduced to tanks at 1.011 SG.

Well, yeah, of course. Essentially, I don't try medications unless I notice a sick fish. And by the time you see evidence of a problem, it's probably too late to do anything. So, based on experience, I usually let nature take its course and don't bother with medications. True, if you know what the disease is, there is probably a medication that will work for it. I'm not that good a diagnostician, so for me, it's hit or miss.

That being said, I quarantine just about everything when I bring it in. An ounce of prevention. And while I try to keep up with water changes, sometimes I fall behind. And if I fall behind for too long, I usually regret it. (I'm a firm believer in understocking, as a hedge against falling behind.)

Hi Bob - no offense intended, but your statement below suggests that either 1) you're using the wrong meds, 2) you're treating too late, after illness is too advanced, or 3) poor water qual or other factors are making it impossible for the stressed fish to recover. Its tricky to avoid causing ammonia & nitrite problems when using meds that suppress nitrifying bacteria.

>> Bob wrote: "I usually don't treat with medications because they usually don't work for me"

The Ick treatments that are comercially available use Malachite to treat it. Malachite will kill most Centrarchids if used in the normal concentrations that are reccomended. I find that NON-IODIZED Sea Salt at a rate of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon works just fine to treat most problems. If you do have anchor worms then the Jungle parasite remedy that was mentioned in one of the first few replies is a great way to get rid of them. If you plan on having any Centrarchids though(Bluegills, Green Sunfish, Longear Sunfish, Pumpkinseeds, Perch, Rock Bass or Shadow Bass) just be very careful with anything that uses Copper, or Copper Oxide in the case of the Malachite, to treat them with. They can be extremely sensetive to it. I found out the hard way and lost a half dozen beautiful little young of year fish, and would hate to have to see anyone else make the same mistake. Best of Luck...


Ben.

1 teaspoon of table salt or kosher salt is about 6 grams, so 1 teasp/gallon (my collecting bucket strength) is only about 1.6 grams per liter (or ppt). The strength at which Uland's madtoms got "resentful" (SG 1.005) is around 7 grams/liter or 4 teaspoons of salt per gallon. So i think 1 teasp/gal is probably safe for pretty much any freshwater fish, and seems to help (IMO) reduce that initial susceptibility to infection that plagues us in low conductivity Atlantic slope streams. If you're worried about the effect of salt on lowering dissolved oxygen, it's trivial at that low concentration. (Of course gently aerating the bucket is always a good idea, with or without salt).

I agree that Madtoms (at least Tadpole Madtoms) can be resentful of salt.
I had a couple of problem tanks that I kept at 1.011 specific gravity. I did not start at these levels and found Tadpole Madtoms began to behave unusually with abrupt changes in salinity over 1.005 SG. Tadpole Madtoms were fine as long as they were slowly brought from 1.005 to 1.011 SG. Wild Tadpole Madtoms could not be introduced to tanks at 1.011 SG.

I recommend using Parasite Clear by Jungle labs, like the earlier poster. I use it to prophylactically treat all of my fish. Also, it won't affect your cycling bacteria. So that's an extra bonus. I've never known a fish to be hurt by it, and I have noticed fish that have visible parasites to be free of the parasites after treatment. Also, it's going to kill internal parasites. Good stuff all the way around!

Brian

Thanks for all the advice. That parasite clear sounds like some good stuff I might have to check out once I get my larger aquarium. I would like to know my fish have been treated inside and out, for the safety of all the tankmates. Thanks

Edited by jamez, 05 September 2009 - 08:11 AM.

Hey not to hijack, but is parasite guard by JL good?