Getting high ammonia readings. From what I read and interpreted the tank would be instantly cycled do to the nitrifying bacteria in the soil. Ammonia and nitrite flucuations are the norm, but that isn't my experience. It is just a steadily rising ammonia level. I used some Ammo-lock as an emergency resort. Going to do a 30% water change tomorrow.
Anyone have similar experiences with happy endings?
Also, no readings for nitrite, or nitrate and ph is at 7.4 steadily.
Not so sold on Walstad in practice as I was in theory
Started by
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, Sep 27 2009 01:02 AM
24 replies to this topic
#2
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Posted 27 September 2009 - 01:18 PM
Depending on your stocking levels, I wouldn't be surprised to see ammonia. Soil and plants help, but give it some time. I don't use Ammo-lock or other chemicals, they prolong cycling. The bacteria need to be able to consume the ammonia to multiply. Do big water changes.
#3
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Posted 27 September 2009 - 05:55 PM
Ammo-lock doesn't remove ammonia but converts it to ammonium which is supposed to be non-toxic. Just did a 50% water change. Going to check it again tomorrow. Trying to leave a trace so the cycle doesn't get blown. I am just upset at myself for adding fish already. Did it because according to Walstad it is ok. Hope that proves to be true. No sick looking fish yet, all look happy, eating well, playing etc. Plants aren't doing so hot. Had an initial downswing. Some look to be recovering.
#4
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Posted 27 September 2009 - 06:43 PM
Found a blog of someone keeping a 55 gallon Walstad and the results were similar so no worries yet.
#5
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Posted 27 September 2009 - 07:30 PM
I believe that Diana Walstad stocks her tanks very, very lightly.
#6
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Posted 27 September 2009 - 09:35 PM
I am about .65" per gallon. Looks like Walstad tanks aren't insta-cycled for everyone. I hope to not lose any during this cycling process. In the blog I found it was pretty rapid. About 12 days. I added fish on Thursday so am on day 4.I believe that Diana Walstad stocks her tanks very, very lightly.
I am concerned about water changes. Do dechlorinators work instantly? No chance that chlorine is killing bacteria is there? The bottle doesn't list ingredients so I do not know what chemicals to research to understand how that whole process works.
#7
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Posted 28 September 2009 - 06:58 AM
In my opinion, calculating inches per gallon is useless. Do 10 one inch fish eat the same amount of food as 1 ten inch fish? No, the ten inch fish eats a lot more, and its bioload is correspondingly higher.
The active ingredient in the dechlorinator I use is sodium thiosulfate. I have a tub that I pretreat and age water in for most of my tanks, but for the larger ones, I add drops of dechlorinator while the water is running in. Maybe someone else can add to this.
The active ingredient in the dechlorinator I use is sodium thiosulfate. I have a tub that I pretreat and age water in for most of my tanks, but for the larger ones, I add drops of dechlorinator while the water is running in. Maybe someone else can add to this.
#8
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Posted 29 September 2009 - 10:22 AM
I used to fill my tank from a hose and dechlorinate in the tank. I always turned off the filters and left a powerhead running to circulate it. I'd imagine the dechlorination process is extremely rapid. However, those drops have to be dispersed to all the untreated water. It seems like the time for that to happen is going to depend highly on water movement etc.
#9
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Posted 29 September 2009 - 08:16 PM
Wow, you guys are gutsy! I've never added water to my tank until after it was treated. I wondered the same as lozgod about how long it should take for the treatment to work, but since the bottle doesn't mention waiting any period of time, I assumed it was supposed to be instantaneous. Since I keep a brackish tank, I dechlorinate first and then add salt, so there are a few minutes of time that elapse before the water goes in the tank.
#10
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Posted 30 September 2009 - 09:47 PM
well maybe not, unless theres a very high amount of chlorine in water, the fish will barely notice it by the time the de-chlorinators have gotten rid of it, fish are sensitive but not that sensitive (in terms of stuff in the water, theyre not gonna all die instantly as soon as 3 chlorine atoms graze their gills lol 
). Now, leaving the untreated water sit for 10 minutes is a different story 
). Now, leaving the untreated water sit for 10 minutes is a different story
#11
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Posted 30 September 2009 - 11:08 PM
Okie dokie my computers fubar, but;
If you add water then then the declorinator, how does it get into the substrate? And if I remeber correctly the most effective terrestrial nitrobacter have symbiotic relationships with plants.
Anyhow, I think the only way to get a tank going without cycling is to add pond water or water from a old tank.
As for myself, the city water only contains flouride. I can change 1/3 of the water without effect, but if I need to do a bigger water change I let the water sit in 5 gallon buckets for 12 hours.
If you add water then then the declorinator, how does it get into the substrate? And if I remeber correctly the most effective terrestrial nitrobacter have symbiotic relationships with plants.
Anyhow, I think the only way to get a tank going without cycling is to add pond water or water from a old tank.
As for myself, the city water only contains flouride. I can change 1/3 of the water without effect, but if I need to do a bigger water change I let the water sit in 5 gallon buckets for 12 hours.
#12
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Posted 01 October 2009 - 09:25 PM
My concern isn't the fish. I was worried water changes may be killing the bacteria. I am a 10 days in with fish introduced, added established gravel (about a cup full) and am still only getting ammonia readings. No nitrites or nitrates.well maybe not, unless theres a very high amount of chlorine in water, the fish will barely notice it by the time the de-chlorinators have gotten rid of it, fish are sensitive but not that sensitive (in terms of stuff in the water, theyre not gonna all die instantly as soon as 3 chlorine atoms graze their gills lol
#13
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Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:34 AM
My ammonia is off the charts. I just did a 60% water change for the second day in a row and it is still indicating very high levels. Had I not read that the tank could be moderately stocked immediately I would of never did it. I have a couple fish showing signs of stress. The only up side is the plants are growing like crazy. Still no sign of nitrites or nitrates.
#14
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Posted 04 October 2009 - 03:26 PM
Keep doing the water changes and stop feeding if you haven't already. A few days without food won't harm the fish and will give the bacteria and plants time to use up the ammonia.
#15
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Posted 04 October 2009 - 05:55 PM
take the fish outta there if you have to in the meantime while your cycle is getting set up.
#16
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 05 October 2009 - 01:05 PM
Interesting. I have never had a soil-based tank not be instantly cycled.
I am curious as to what dechlorinator you are using. Look at the bottle - does it say it can be used for chloramines? If it doesn't, and your municipality uses chloramine instead of chlorine (many do), you will get a huge dose of ammonia with every water change, as it is released from its bond with the chlorine. Years ago I lost a lot of fish when the Boston area's water supply started containing chloramine.
I am curious as to what dechlorinator you are using. Look at the bottle - does it say it can be used for chloramines? If it doesn't, and your municipality uses chloramine instead of chlorine (many do), you will get a huge dose of ammonia with every water change, as it is released from its bond with the chlorine. Years ago I lost a lot of fish when the Boston area's water supply started containing chloramine.
#17
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Posted 05 October 2009 - 05:36 PM
I recommend adding the full dose of dechlorinator to the tank and then running water in. That way you avoid the chlorine in the substrate problem (I don't know if it's really a problem, but it is something I've worried about and the fix is so simple it seems silly to take chances) and ensure that there is water movement in the tank to mix up the dechlorinator. I also turn off filters while filling, but no data on the effects of not doing so. Most of my tanks have HOB filters and I tend to lower the water level below the suctions during water changes.
Plenty of n00bs on tropical forums have had surprisingly good success washing filter pads in straight tap water (meaning less than half the fish died and the tank was cycled in less than a week after returning the filter with tap water to a tank with no dechlorinator), so I do think the bacteria are actually fairly hardy. You're really talking about seconds of exposure here, to a relatively low chemical concentration after dilution in the tank.
Plenty of n00bs on tropical forums have had surprisingly good success washing filter pads in straight tap water (meaning less than half the fish died and the tank was cycled in less than a week after returning the filter with tap water to a tank with no dechlorinator), so I do think the bacteria are actually fairly hardy. You're really talking about seconds of exposure here, to a relatively low chemical concentration after dilution in the tank.
#18
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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:47 PM
@Nativeplanter. I am using API Stresszyme which is used for chlorine and chloramine.
I am to date getting NO nitrite or nitrate readings. Ammonia was dark green. I did a water change of about 80% of the water last night. Got it down to near zero. Didn't want to get it that low but anyway, that shows it is not a reading that is due to the water change.
I had a lot of API Ammo-lock in there initially. I am hoping that lead to a false ammonia reading. I still haven't lost any fish and the few stressed looking ones seem to be recovering.
It is like the nitrogen cycle is paused. I will give it time and see where it goes.
I have added established gravel, used bottled bacteria cultures (some swear by them some call them snake juice), would say I have a heavy plant load in comparison to my fish load.
Googling - Aquarium won't cycle - and seeing what I find.
I am to date getting NO nitrite or nitrate readings. Ammonia was dark green. I did a water change of about 80% of the water last night. Got it down to near zero. Didn't want to get it that low but anyway, that shows it is not a reading that is due to the water change.
I had a lot of API Ammo-lock in there initially. I am hoping that lead to a false ammonia reading. I still haven't lost any fish and the few stressed looking ones seem to be recovering.
It is like the nitrogen cycle is paused. I will give it time and see where it goes.
I have added established gravel, used bottled bacteria cultures (some swear by them some call them snake juice), would say I have a heavy plant load in comparison to my fish load.
Googling - Aquarium won't cycle - and seeing what I find.
#19
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Posted 06 October 2009 - 04:54 PM
Ammo-Lock will screw up the cycle.
#20
Guest_Gene2308_*
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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:00 AM
I have never been a believer in performing water changes to reduce ammonia levels. It is my experience that you need to allow nitrifiers to culture and that changing water just delays this process...though folks tell me that you might be able to prevent a huge ammonia peak this way...
IMO - buying products designed to either completely cycle a tank, and even those which are supposed to aid in cycling in some way are a worthless waste of money. This is regardless of claims by the company, little chemical reactions shown in print, or stories that begin with "I never thought it would work, but this stuff here..."
IMO - buying products designed to either completely cycle a tank, and even those which are supposed to aid in cycling in some way are a worthless waste of money. This is regardless of claims by the company, little chemical reactions shown in print, or stories that begin with "I never thought it would work, but this stuff here..."
Edited by Gene2308, 07 October 2009 - 08:01 AM.
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