What can kill a bio filter?

ok, I am officially frustrated beyond the definition of the word.

What has changed since the bacteria was established.

1. Started using Seachem Prime as my water conditioner.

Can't think of anything else.

Other than that I can not think of anything.

I have a lot of plants, a canister filter, a powerhead driven sponge filter, soil, sand. Plenty of surface area for bacteria.

Ammonia is off the chart literally. Nitrite and trate is gone.

I don't know what to do. It's been 2 months. I'm at the point where I am ready to stop water changes. I am just going to top off for evaporation. Test levels once a week or if fish start dying off, and leave the rest to God. Maybe that is the only solution. Hopefully the fish make it through.

I hate bio filters because I always seem to find a way to destroy them on accident. My Aqueon 55 is a powerful little workhorse, and it has never broken down. As for your filter, they seem to me to be intentionally evil.

I hate bio filters because I always seem to find a way to destroy them on accident. My Aqueon 55 is a powerful little workhorse, and it has never broken down. As for your filter, they seem to me to be intentionally evil.

Even without filters my plants to fish ratio is insanely high. I don't get it.

Another possible culprit is I did some pruning the other day and intentionally didn't wash my hands as to not get soap in the water. Previously to that I was cleaning a cat scratch with rubbing alcohol. I am wondering if my hands leached alcohol in to the tank and killed the bacteria.

1. Started using Seachem Prime as my water conditioner.

Have you investigated this further? Stop using Prime for a while and see what happens.

what about water supply?

test a sample of your water after it has aged for a day (to gas off chlorine, etc)

do you have a dead fish, large shrimp, or crawfish in the tank?

I use Prime 100% of the time. I'm never had a negative responce from prime. I change about 10 gallons weekly or bi-weekly and pour in a capful of Prime. I also take it with me in the field to collect. I know that every system can react differently, but my prime has never hurt either of my canister filters. I hope you can track down the culprit.

Consider possibility your readings are off. Is your water off colored? Could the Seachem Prime contain something that interferes with the reactants of the ammonia test proceedure?

Have you checked your water out of the tap? Mine will contain small amount of ammonia every so often - the water company switches back and forth between straight chlorine and chloramines, and I wonder if that has something to do with it or if it's just because of what makes it into the reservoir.

Prime is absolutely safe for filters, but you're not the first to note this problem. I have a hard time believing that ammonia is off the charts in your tank with so many plants, and I also have a hard time believing that no fish are dead after such a long time. Seachem has stated that Prime does interfere with the API test kits, and others use a similar or identical test process, so I also think you have bad test results.

Check the age of your test kit. It's coded into that batch number printed on the bottle. I forget how to read them, but surely someone does, or you could call the company. In any case, I'd try a new test kit, preferrably a different brand. I might also try saving water from the next water change and test it a day or two later (Prime will break down and be gone in that period).

I would also look for a dead animal, but I consider it unlikely given all the different things you've described. I've never had a filter just die on me though.

If you are not losing fish and haven't added any treatments other than Prime, I would bet money that you do not have an ammonia problem. Your test kit likely picks up all ammonia, even that bound by Prime. What you need to do is test for free ammonia, which is the toxic stuff. Prime and other chemicals convert the toxic free ammonia (NH3) to less toxic ammonium (NH4+). Problem is that most test kits will pick up both. See if your pet store can do it or get Seachem's test for free ammonia. I am rather certain that the test kit you are using is picking up both forms. I'd bet that what you actually have is all ammonium.

I haven't used a freshwater test kit in years. IMO all that water testing tends to make you too interactive in the cycling process. Keep up on prevetative maintainence (water changes) and observe your fish. IF they are gasping or have clamped fins then you have a problem. Things shouldn't change that quickly with 55g of water if you aren't doing anything other than 10 to 20% water changes. I would try to keep your hands out of the tank for a while and let things work them selves out naturally. I believe that is the path to a low maintenance stable environment. YMMV

I know "cycling" products are frowned upon by many but I have had tremendous luck with SeaChem's Stability in new tanks. I have used it in fresh and saltwater tanks.

Tap water is showing no ammonia. All fish accounted for. Can't get a count on shrimp. Too small and too many hiding places.

Another theory I had is there are a lot of trapped CO2 pockets in the soil. I wonder if some of my massive blackworm colony may have tried to make camp in an O2 dead spot and died off creating an ammonia explosion because now my ammonia is back to .25-.5 ppm.

I supplement with Seachem Flourish Excell and my plants seem to grow daily and the growth is obvious. All of them. So there is a lot of carbon, nitrogen, and other necessary elements in the water apparently.

And that would lead in to my next question. Could the plants be a manipulateable (question 2A, is that even a word?) bio filter. Let's say you have an ammonia spike. Well then spike your other nutrients i.e. carbon, potassium, etc.) in order to increase your nitrogen uptake resulting in cleaner water and more plant growth.

Dude, you're not listening. You are not, and I suspect never had an ammonia spike.

Here's what's going on:

Your tap water is treated with chloramines at the water treatment plant. Many municipalities use this chemical now instead of chlorine because it is more stable.

When you add a dechlorinator to chloramine, the chlorine reacts to make hydrochloric acid (a very small amount that is safe in the aquarium). The amine part turns to ammonia (NH3). This is a problem when using simple dechlorinators, because you now have toxic ammonia.

So we don't use simple dechlorinators any more. The stuff we use now has an added chemical to change the ammonia that was released to ammonium (NH4+). The ammonium is not at all problem for your fish.

The test kit that you are using can't tell the difference between NH3 and NH4+. It reads the combined concentration of both, together. You can have nothing but NH4+, but the test kit will read the same as if it were NH3. It simply can't differentiate.

It is like counting apples and oranges together. If you have 2 apples and 4 oranges, you have 6 fruits total. But if you have 0 apples and 6 oranges, you also have 6 fruits total. Your test kit can only tell you the total.

Or, an even better analogy: Say in one bowl you have 3 nightshade fruit (which are poisonous), and 4 tomatoes (which are realated to nightshade). Both are in the family Solanaceae. If you count them, you get 7 fruit from the Solanaceae family in that bowl.

Now, let's say another bowl has 7 nightshade and 0 tomatoes. You still have 7 fruits from the Solanaceae family.

And if a third bowl has 0 nightshade and 7 tomatoes, it also has 7 fruits from the Solanaceae family.

The bowl with the 7 nightshade will make you very sick if you eat them. But the tomatoes will not. If someone ran a test on a bowl and said that there are 7 fruits from Solanaceae, you would not know what they were and if they were safe to eat or not.

I still believe your tank was cycled instantly from the beginning. I have never had a soil tank that wasn't. You were simply creating NH4+ when you used the prime (and the other ammonia-reducing chemical you used, I forget which). Your test kit can not tell the difference.

Stop thinking about it so much and enjoy the fish and plants. Your tank is fine.

I understand the the difference between the toxic and non toxic versions. You're absolutely right. I wish I had a kit that differentiated the two.

I may of missed something but in regards to the amine part, I know Prime is not amine based. That is why it is ok to use with purigen.

You and a few others are right again about me needing to stop obsessing on the water quality and enjoy the tank.

I am fairly certain the tank didn't cycle instantly because nitrites and nitrates didn't register for about 40 days.

The reason I am thinking my biological filtration has ceased is I am not getting any readings of nitrates. Granted I am heavily in favor of plant load vs animal load, but I don't even have trace amounts of nitrates.

******** UPDATE *************

As I was typing that I thought to myself to retest for nitrates and they are registering at 10ppm. Weird, nothing for 3 days straight with the exception of trace readings 3 days ago. Anyway that is good news. Guess I really do need to chill out and enjoy the tank.

So now I have .25ish ppm of ammonia possibly ammonium. 0 Nitrites, and 10ppm of nitrates.

Another stroke of good fortune is it looks like my brown algae is beginning to recede. It looks like there is less today as there was last night, a noticable difference at that.

Hopefully these threads aren't getting old and annoying to anyone. This is my first shot at a planted tank and my first native tank, other than a sunfish tank that was a failure a few years ago, in about 22-23 years so I am dedicated and a little obsessed with it I guess. I will say I have gotten a lot of support and picked up a lot of knowledge on this forum. Definitely glad I found you ladies and gentlemen. As silly as it may sound to those not in this world of native fish tanks I look at providing a healthy as possible environment for my fish as a serious responsibility. From my point of view they didn't ask to be removed from their natural environment and placed in a glass box and as a living thing they are entitled to a quality of life they would of received in the wild.

So am I an obsessed weirdo or someone just doing the right thing? lol.

One more thing nativeplanter.

I have added more aeration to my tank and noticed a few things.

One is my daters and dace are a lot more active. Made a world of difference. Also the darters are showing their colors a lot more. Needless to say I am happy I did it.

Second observation would be my ph is higher. From around 7.2 to 7.6. My educated guess here is it is due to CO2 escaping from the aeration, Plants do not seem to be suffering as a result. I believe this is due to me supplementing with Seachem Flourish excel (organic carbon source). Seems to be doing the job but in your (very valued) opinion am I doing the plants a disservice? By all looks I would say no. It has also seemed to keep green algae at bay.

Third being since adding aeration nitrite has been zero-trace amounts as stated previously.

In my previous post I mentioned the blackworm death theory. Assuming this is the case, or even if it isn't at some point the uneaten worms will die. I am correct saying they will serve as a soil fertilizer right?

It is a good thing that you are so concerned for the well-being of your fish. Many people are just the opposite, and it is sad.


The airation is just fine for you plants. In fact, you can probably skip the Excel, too. I've had a lot of soil tanks with very good filtration/water movement where the plants did just fine. Excel may have its place in newly established gravel-only tanks, but I think it is mostly marketing. Your soil, as you have noticed, will give off CO2 as organic material decomposes. This material isn't just the blackworms, but all kinds of organic goodness that was in the soil at the start. Plus, remember that the CO2 in the air can diffuse into the water just like it can diffuse out. There will always be CO2 in the water for your plants. Some people supplement because they want amazingly fast growth. In fact, some people get really proud when their plants "pearl", or have little bubbles of oxygen forming on the leaves, the photosynthesis is so fast.

I liken it to cars. Some people like to tinker and made them go really, really fast. Or that looks really, really cool. I'm just happy with one that gets me where I want to go, has room for the dogs, and is comfortable to sit in.

If your tank is cycled, you may not get a nitrate reading at all. Which is good, since it is toxic. If you have really good plant growth, you may not get a nitrite reading either, because the plants are taking up the nitrogen. I have had that happen. Think of it as a blessing - you don't have to change the water as much. On some tanks I've gone months and months without changing water, just topping off.

Blackworms - you are right, they will be a fertilizer. And unless you used an enormous amount, they won't have caused an ammonia spike either.

pH - CO2 in the water makes it more acid. So by aerating and letting some of it gass off, the pH will rise again. Try this - take a vial of water and test the pH. Then, take a straw and blow bubbles in the water for 5 minutes and retest. The pH will be lower. New soil tanks could also see a pH adjustment as some of the initial organic material breaks down quickly at first, giving off CO2, and lowering the pH. Compost piles do the same thing.

amine - that part isn't in the Prime. It's in the chloramine. So when the dechlorinator breaks off the chlorine, the amine is left over and turns to ammonia.

brown algae - I have seen this happen too, where it blooms and then recedes (diatoms, that is). Nice to have something that takes care of itself, isn't it?

Sorry about the long-winded ammonia/ammonium post. Sometimes I do that for the benefit of others who are following along. I was thinking that you (and others) may be misunderstanding the two. Helps make for a nice library of old posts to search through if you have a question!

I'm very glad your tank is doing well. You deserve a good tank, and are trying really hard to be a good steward. Your work is paying off, and your tank seems just fine to me. Sit back and enjoy. You deserve it.

I am 100% against Flourish Excell the liquid "organic" carbon source for plants. I think it is what gave me problems killing off ghost shrimp in the past but now I think there is a new menace that could be added to the list. I think it killed my bio-filter. I had trouble getting it established when I first set the tank up in Baltimore. Since my move it has been doing fine. Before finding out that it is in fact a disinfectant as well as organic carbon I used it and my bio-filtration died. Back to high ammonia and nothing else. I think there may be a link there.

I'd like to put in a good word for air-driven sponge filters. That is all I use, plus water changes. Detroit has some of the best water in the world. I could age the water 24 hours and use it, but I have a carbon filter on my water line so the water goes straight into the tank.

I assume we are talking freshwater, and not crusty.

My fish are great - baby Pteronotropis thompsoni, baby Northern Redbelly Dace, and baby Elassoma.

If you have high ammonia and zero nitrite, you have zero biofiltration whtsoever. Your water would stink and your fish would be gasping and scratching or worse.
I'm totally in agreement with those who say your test is bogus. Take a fresh sample to a decent LFS and have them test it.

having said that, if I had to speculate on a problem based on your brief description, the word "SOIL" jumped off the screen to me. Where'd you get it? How sure are you about the content of the soil?