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ID this Snubnose Darter

Started by Guest_jblaylock_* , Nov 09 2009 08:18 PM

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21 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 08:18 PM

I collected two of these Snubnose Darters in the upper portion of Fishing Creek in Central KY near Eubank KY. This would be in the Middle Cumberland River Drainage. I betting on TN Snubnose, but it looks a bit different than the ones I've collect in the the TN River drainage.
I know there is a KY Snubnose, but I think it's found in the Green River Drainage.

Photos aren't good, he's still shy

Posted Image

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#2 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 08:58 PM

Well, I agree it looks a lot like E. tennesseense, but I think the location for that is off. My bet based on location is E. orientale. Now you are making me sick posting pictures of some of my favorite fish - Ulocentra.

Blake

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#3 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 09 November 2009 - 10:02 PM

I was thinking Tennessee too, but the dorsal fins have different coloration from what I've seen in the past and it has more of a complete dark bar down it's side rather than the dark blotches (though it appears to be blotches in the photos and I haven't been around a ton of TN Snubnoses).

I'm partial to the Catonotus darters. They aren't the most colorful, but very interesting.

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#4 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 12:19 PM

Unless you have a dorsal shot from when you obtained him to prove otherwise, I'd agree with the E. tennesseense id. With that prominent red marking on the first dorsal web it would be hard not to be or some variation of.
They all look different!

Tennessee Snubnose Darter (Etheostoma tennesseense)
Posted Image

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#5 Guest_UncleWillie_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 02:14 PM

I am going to agree and go with the TN snubnose as well. Looks spot on from those shots.

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#6 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 04:20 PM

I am going to agree and go with the TN snubnose as well. Looks spot on from those shots.

Appears to be but the location is off significantly for E. tennesseense. Go back in the spring and see if they're green or black!

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#7 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 04:47 PM

It's orientale like Blake said (by range and coloration - as much as you can see). There's not going to be anything different in the Rockcastle drainage.

Are you sure that's tenneseense Lance? I don't see any green or blue hues at all. Did you get that up in the Obed?

And yeah, the Kentucky snubnose, rafinesquei, is found in the Green River.

Todd

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#8 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 05:50 PM

Am I ever sure with Ulocentra? I got it with you on the Clinch, I thought we were in tennessee territory ;-)

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#9 Guest_BTDarters_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 06:12 PM

Whatever it is, it's a beautiful fish! :drool:

Brian

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#10 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:22 PM

It's orientale like Blake said (by range and coloration - as much as you can see). There's not going to be anything different in the Rockcastle drainage.

Are you sure that's tenneseense Lance? I don't see any green or blue hues at all. Did you get that up in the Obed?

And yeah, the Kentucky snubnose, rafinesquei, is found in the Green River.

Todd

What is Obed?

I looked up the orientale (Eastrim Darter), KY fish species list doesn't have a record for it in KY, but doesn't mean it's not there.

I will try to get some more photos of it.

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#11 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:25 PM

LOL Lance, maybe marginally more than Catonotus

OK, now I gotta get the paper out. Was it from Copper Creek, or did you get it in the Holston? Because that fish could be simoterum too. I will say this... August has to be about the worst time to make a comparison. Even with a fantastic photo like that. We gotta get a lucky April trip in here for Ulocentra and spectabile.

Todd

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#12 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:35 PM

Well, I will be heading down there for sure in March during spring break, alone or not I am going to be Doration, Oligocephalus, and Ulocentra bound! From the last trip the Nothonotus even looked better in March, plus photos just don't stress fish out as much in the cold! If the dang water levels will stay down, too far away but I already have my fingers crossed.

Blake

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#13 Guest_Kanus_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:39 PM

This sounds like the good makings for a spring trip. I'd make my way over there for sure...

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#14 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:41 PM

What is Obed?

I looked up the orientale (Eastrim Darter), KY fish species list doesn't have a record for it in KY, but doesn't mean it's not there.

I will try to get some more photos of it.

Yeah, E. orientale is a recent split in the E. simoterum group. All the splits assigned are valid and each one is quite different in coloration (nuptial males at least). Now, females.... I'm not even going there.

Blake

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#15 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 09:43 PM

This sounds like the good makings for a spring trip. I'd make my way over there for sure...

Absolutely, we will have to keep in touch for when March roles around. Will be nice to finally meet some NANFA members, dang school always getting in the way.

Now, if I had just waited one more minute I could of avoided three post and turned them into one!

Blake

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#16 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 01:10 AM

LOL Lance, maybe marginally more than Catonotus OK, now I gotta get the paper out. Was it from Copper Creek, or did you get it in the Holston? Because that fish could be simoterum too. I will say this... August has to be about the worst time to make a comparison. Even with a fantastic photo like that. We gotta get a lucky April trip in here for Ulocentra and spectabile.

Todd

Gahh tell me about it.
Holston site. It survived me crashing twice up that embankment...

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#17 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 08:14 AM

Yeah, that's actually simoterum.

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#18 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 11:24 AM

Did we come to a conclusion for this species?

simoterum?

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#19 Guest_itsme_*

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 12:12 PM

Don't know!

Nice natural tank deco! Very authentic!

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#20 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:20 PM

Did we come to a conclusion for this species?

simoterum?

Your fish is Etheostoma oriental (Eastrim Darter) a recent split from the Etheostoma simoterum complex. The photo Lance posted is the Etheostoma simoterum. It has been broken up into multiple species including E. atripinne, E. occidentale, E. orientale, E. planasaxatile, E. tennesseense, but still includes the type species E. simoterum.

Blake

Edited by blakemarkwell, 13 November 2009 - 09:20 PM.