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Collecting Fish/Aquatic Plants


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#1 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 10:55 AM

I just joined NANFA last night. The first thing that I learned was that collecting fish in VT is no longer allowed due to regulations regarding VHS.
I was hoping to do some trading with NANFA members as I love collecting, but the wife will not tolerate any more new tanks in the house. I have some space that I am holding for red bellied dace I was planning on collecting,and a few other specific fish.
Well, hopefully I can still collect plants. I just collected some nice Ludwigia the other day. I also collected some other plants that I have not figured out for sure what they are.
Anyway I would be happy to collect some plants for someone and trade for fish or other plants? The season for plants is quickly coming to a close here. I am hoping to get some madtoms, bluespots, pygmy killies, other small fish.
I read on the Trading Dock that before trying to make some trades it is best to make some posts and try to meet some folks. Posting on forums,computer stuff in general is not my forte', but here goes...
BTW, any VT members?

#2 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 28 November 2009 - 06:53 PM

Welcome to NANFA! Another way to get fish is through our vendors. I've bought from all but one of them, and I'm about to remedy that. They all provide great service. I've always been happy with my orders.

Commercial vendors

I've also bought from Sach's. I was pleased with them, too.

Sach's Systems Aquaculture

I would rather catch my own fish, but I don't have access to everything I want.

#3 Guest_Jan_*

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 04:56 PM

I just joined NANFA last night. The first thing that I learned was that collecting fish in VT is no longer allowed due to regulations regarding VHS.
I was hoping to do some trading with NANFA members as I love collecting, but the wife will not tolerate any more new tanks in the house. I have some space that I am holding for red bellied dace I was planning on collecting,and a few other specific fish.
Well, hopefully I can still collect plants. I just collected some nice Ludwigia the other day. I also collected some other plants that I have not figured out for sure what they are.
Anyway I would be happy to collect some plants for someone and trade for fish or other plants? The season for plants is quickly coming to a close here. I am hoping to get some madtoms, bluespots, pygmy killies, other small fish.
I read on the Trading Dock that before trying to make some trades it is best to make some posts and try to meet some folks. Posting on forums,computer stuff in general is not my forte', but here goes...
BTW, any VT members?

WOW, no collecting at all? Are you sure that the restrictions don't just apply to trout streams. What a bummer.
- Jan

#4 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:40 AM

Welcome to NANFA! Another way to get fish is through our vendors. I've bought from all but one of them, and I'm about to remedy that. They all provide great service. I've always been happy with my orders.

Commercial vendors

I've also bought from Sach's. I was pleased with them, too.

Sach's Systems Aquaculture

I would rather catch my own fish, but I don't have access to everything I want.


Thanks for the welcome!
I have only bought from Sach's so far. Being a working musician I live on beans, so..it gets pricy to order fish with overnight delivery.
I am going to get some bluespot sunfish from them some time in the near future. I am also planning on getting some tadpole madtoms. I have not ordered from BT Darters yet, but I would like to try them out. Jonah's has some nice Dollar sunfish too. I Have a blue one from Florida, but I sure would like to get a red one. They cannot be kept together though as I learned the hard way.
Patience, it's not my strong point.

#5 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:36 PM

So far I've always had fish shipped Priority Mail. I've avoided buying during extreme heat or cold and it's worked fine. It's not cheap though! The vendors work hard to pack them well.

#6 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 06:31 PM

So far I've always had fish shipped Priority Mail. I've avoided buying during extreme heat or cold and it's worked fine. It's not cheap though! The vendors work hard to pack them well.

Thanks for the info!

#7 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 10:39 PM

ah ha! I was just reading the VT baitfish regs, and it seems that as long as I do not transport baitfish from the waterbody where they were caught, I am abiding by the law. I have a sick pond and brook across the road from my house and a river just down the road that are great collection sites! In the past I have walked there and back.
I get the whole VHS thing. I do not release caught fish, and if I get some with this disease at the pond or in my quaranteen tank I will put them out of their mysery and sterilize the tank.
Yeah!

#8 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 06:25 PM

Interesting and strange law. I understand what they are trying to do, but it seems like they are approaching it an odd way, but I'm not going into law and opinion.

I was reading THIS and I agree with what you said. As long as you don't drive away, it is legal, though a game wardon may harass you over it.

But let me bring this up. (taken from that document)

5.3.6 Personally harvested baitfish shall not be transported by motorized vehicle away
from the waterbody from which they were collected.

Definitions:
5.2.3 "Baitfish" means fish species and parts thereof, living or dead, used for the purpose
of attracting and catching fish.

Lets say you catch a shiner or darter in a local/non local creek with intent of taking it home to your tank, is that fish a 'baitfish'? Their definition says that it is not and would make it legal to drive it away in your vehicle. You may want to call the VTF&WD and ask for further explaination on this.

#9 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:28 AM

Interesting and strange law. I understand what they are trying to do, but it seems like they are approaching it an odd way, but I'm not going into law and opinion.

I was reading THIS and I agree with what you said. As long as you don't drive away, it is legal, though a game wardon may harass you over it.

But let me bring this up. (taken from that document)

5.3.6 Personally harvested baitfish shall not be transported by motorized vehicle away
from the waterbody from which they were collected.

Definitions:
5.2.3 "Baitfish" means fish species and parts thereof, living or dead, used for the purpose
of attracting and catching fish.

Lets say you catch a shiner or darter in a local/non local creek with intent of taking it home to your tank, is that fish a 'baitfish'? Their definition says that it is not and would make it legal to drive it away in your vehicle. You may want to call the VTF&WD and ask for further explaination on this.

Most excellent point, I like your thinking!
I have actually been thinking about trying to get a "scientific collection permit" or some such thing. I was researching Iowa Darters which are now apparently in VT as well as a few others that were not known to be here before. The state info I found on-line said "more information is needed" so why couldn't I provide some of that info and also be benefited by it? NY has more info, but still the same "more info needed..." I spend a lot of time in the water there too, and I sure would like to find an Iowa Darter!
I guess we'll see what happens next spring.
It seems to me that VT has not put much effort into researching and documenting the small/non-game fish. Very disappointing as they are a crucial part of the aquatic eco-system.
As far as the law goes, it is good they are trying to protect our fish but as is often the case it seems not to have been fully thought out.

#10 Guest_nativeplanter_*

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:55 PM

I think you are going to need to get a scientific permit.

I was curious, and looked at the VT hunting/fishing digest. It says:

No person shall have live fish in their possession that are
transported in a manner which attempts to keep them
alive when leaving waters of the state (10 V.S.A. 1251(13)),
except as follows: if the person has been issued a scientific
collection permit by the Commissioner which specifically
approves of the activity, the person has been issued a
fish transportation permit by the Commissioner which
specifically approves of the activity, the person has been
issued a fish breeders permit or fish importation permit
by the Commissioner

This is on page 37 of the digest: http://www.vtfishand...-46_Fishing.pdf

#11 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:28 AM

I think you are going to need to get a scientific permit.

I was curious, and looked at the VT hunting/fishing digest. It says:

No person shall have live fish in their possession that are
transported in a manner which attempts to keep them
alive when leaving waters of the state (10 V.S.A. 1251(13)),
except as follows: if the person has been issued a scientific
collection permit by the Commissioner which specifically
approves of the activity, the person has been issued a
fish transportation permit by the Commissioner which
specifically approves of the activity, the person has been
issued a fish breeders permit or fish importation permit
by the Commissioner

This is on page 37 of the digest: http://www.vtfishand...-46_Fishing.pdf

Argh! I don't recall having read that part. Well I guess I will have to find out about this permit for sure.

#12 Guest_jase_*

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 03:09 PM

Hey Elijah, I'm in Vermont, also. Bolton, between Burlington and Montpelier. It's my understanding that collecting for any purpose other than to immediately use as bait on the same body of water is not allowed in Vermont. Initially the rules were just temporary in response to VHS, but they've now been made permanent.

I actually did go down the route of trying to obtain a permit in 2008, and got shot down. At least as of that time, there simply isn't a permit in Vermont that would cover a hobbyist not associated with an educational institution.
I just updated a previous thread with that info here: http://forum.nanfa.o...050

I'm not certain what the rules are for bringing native fish into Vermont that are legally collected or purchased from other states. You're certainly not allowed to import fish with the intention of releasing them into waters of the state, but not sure about keeping them in aquaria. Obviously the aquarium industry brings in fish of hundreds of different species every month (and a lot of times where the people involved aren't even really clear on exactly what those species are). It wouldn't make a lot of sense to prohibit keeping fish in an aquarium just based on the fact that they're native to the country/region, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's not the case.

#13 Guest_Elijah_*

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:40 AM

Hey Elijah, I'm in Vermont, also. Bolton, between Burlington and Montpelier. It's my understanding that collecting for any purpose other than to immediately use as bait on the same body of water is not allowed in Vermont. Initially the rules were just temporary in response to VHS, but they've now been made permanent.

I actually did go down the route of trying to obtain a permit in 2008, and got shot down. At least as of that time, there simply isn't a permit in Vermont that would cover a hobbyist not associated with an educational institution.
I just updated a previous thread with that info here: http://forum.nanfa.o...050

I'm not certain what the rules are for bringing native fish into Vermont that are legally collected or purchased from other states. You're certainly not allowed to import fish with the intention of releasing them into waters of the state, but not sure about keeping them in aquaria. Obviously the aquarium industry brings in fish of hundreds of different species every month (and a lot of times where the people involved aren't even really clear on exactly what those species are). It wouldn't make a lot of sense to prohibit keeping fish in an aquarium just based on the fact that they're native to the country/region, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's not the case.

Howdy,
Hmm, well I have read all the rules and regulations. Too bad they don't have stricter rules and regulations for the freighter ships carrying VHS and invasive species into the Saint Lawrence River. I guess if the st Lawrence ran through VT they would.
I would like to start a petition for a permit for us to collect. It seems that you and I may be the only Vermonter/NANFA members. I guess I could get random people to sign it.Do you have any ideas about how this might work? I have signed some petitions, but never written one myself.



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