new to live plants. need some guidance.

Well this coming spring I'd like to go collect some live plants. I've never done live plants before and was wondering if you guys can give me some advice. Am I able to use just regular gravel? for my lighting have a 10k colored bulbs. also what about aeration? I am running a penguin350 and a whisperer something plus an 18" air line. If you guys can throw me in the right direction id appreciate it. Thanks everyone!
Mike

Planted tanks are great!
My suggestion is go for a Walstad style tank.
You might find this link helpful.
http://thegab.org/Pl...anted-tank.html
I have 9 planted tanks. I have used many methods. It can get really expensive. I wish I had learned this style before I went out and spent a bunch of $ on gadgets. I set one of these up two weeks ago and the plants are growing really fast. I have no cycling issues and I have many fish in it already.
I used a 1" layer of organic compost(with a super low npk rating)covered with a 1 1/2" layer of play sand. Do not use the white play sand unless you have fish that like hard water. With this set up your ph will stay lower. Many fish like low ph, but some prefer higher. Something to keep in mind.
I also use a T-5 light set up with 2x 6700k bulbs. I do not have enough sunlight coming in to go without these lights. Old school florescent hoods generally only offer enough light for plants that do not need much light.
I do fertilize with seachem, and seachem excel once a week, but am gradually cutting back on the dosage.
Get as many plants as you can! this is the key to fighting algae, providing clean water and oxygen for you fish.
Filtration. In tanks that still have filters, I keep them running on the lowest setting and have removed the carbon- as it only removed minerals that the plants like. If I have to medicate a tank I will put it back in after to help remove the old med.
Many of my tanks no longer have filters. Many HOB filters have a splashy waterfall effect that off-gasses co2. -not good for the plants. Airstones are not good either.
During the night plants stop producing oxygen and start using oxygen. If you have enough plants they will supposedly produce way more oxygen than they will use over the course of the night. I have not had any problems. But, in tanks that have fish with unusually high oxygen needs- I run a power head on a timer that starts when the lights go out and ends an hour after the lights come on. This gives the plants time to start producing more oxygen.
The more plants you put in right off the top the better. That's the key.
Happy Planting!

Remember that various plants have various needs—just like fish. Depending on the type of plant you collect, that plant might need a rich substrate, a lot of light, cold water, soft water, strong water current, etc. And, some plants don’t seem to be picky at all. I find it is simplest to just try and recreate the environment in which you found the plant.

ok well maybe you guys can lead me torwards plants that are easy to grow with just gravel and 10000k lighting.

Anacharis, Ceratophyllum (hornwort) and Java moss (not native; I recommend attaching this to something, but not required with some filters) will do well in that environment. Most plants will want sand rather than very coarse gravel to root in. It shouldn't be hard to add some sand to your tank if you want rooted plants though. The ones I mentioned can be grown rooted or floating, but may tend to clog filter intakes when floating.

It would help to know something about the intensity of your lighting also. How big is the tank, how many and what size (length, and also are they T5, T8 or T12) and wattage or lumen rating are the bulbs, and do they have a reflector?

Edited by gzeiger, 08 December 2009 - 07:55 PM.

As alluded to already, we would need to know more about the specifics of your aquarium before we could know whether most plants would be suited to it or not. But, if you are willing to use non-natives, there are some I know of that can grow in virtually any aquarium. The following list of plants I grew for over a year in a quarantine aquarium that had very little light, little water movement, no fertilization, varying temperatures, occasional medications added, and no substrate at all (poor set-up for most plants):

Anubias barteri var. nana
Anubias barteri var. angustifolia
Vesicularia dubyana-(Java Moss)
Bolbitis heudelotii-(This plant may only have proved so hardy for me because I have soft water.)

I have also found Java Fern, Microsorum pteropus, to be incredibly hardy.

I'd swap the 10(000)k for a 65-6700k.

Clean, bare gravel is a tough environment for rooted plants.

Of the native plants that I've tried to starve to death in gravel:
Vals have done pretty well in a bare gravel tanks, with harder water.
Sagittaria subulata can also do well in gravel.
One word of caution, all vals and most sags are sensitive to Excel and may melt if not acclimated slowly (so, no initial "overdose" to kill algae).

Hygrophila Difformis/Water Wisteria is tough to kill.
It is non-native, originally imported from India.
WW adapts to most tank condition quickly, and it also seems to grow just fine as a floater in my "jail" tank. In a stable tank it will happily and quickly starve algae out of existence. You will be trimming WW back about every other week, btw.

For plant success, lighting -stability- has been the key for me. Whenever I change anything having to do with lighting (bulbs, intensity, or duration), algae often adapts faster to the new conditions than the plants, which take a few weeks to figure it out.

Rick

Edited by rickwrench, 09 December 2009 - 01:23 PM.

thanks alot for the replies everyone. I guess i'll look into different bulbs. I had the 10000k in there for when i had my tank stocked with cichlids. i just recently added a layer of natural looking pea gravel. is there a substrate i can put a think layer of on top to help the plants? or should i try and scoop out old gravel and mix? i really would like to do a planted natural looking tank.

If you pour sand over the top it will work its way down. Many plants will be ok with that.

If you pour sand over the top it will work its way down. Many plants will be ok with that.

will that screw with my filters? i have 2 HOB. plus what happens when i gravel vac?

I agree with rickwrench that 6500-6700K would probably be better than 10,000K for your plants, but I have grown plants just fine in 10,000K lights before. So, I think it is more a question of how much light you have more than the color temperature of your lights. Also, you mentioned substrate. Personally, I have used the aquarium plants gravel from aquariumplants.com with great results. This substrate is just the right size, holds nutrients well, does not mess your tank up when you pull up plants, is a nice dark color, and does not cost near as much as some of the other commercial plant substrates. You could easily put it underneath your pea gravel.

will that screw with my filters? i have 2 HOB. plus what happens when i gravel vac?

Actually, sand is pretty easy to take care of. But, you don't put the gravel vac down into the sand. Instead you swirl it over the top of the sand to get at all the stuff you need to suck up. Also, your HOB filters will only be negatively affected by the sand if the current is strung enough to get the sand sucked up into the filters.

Actually, sand is pretty easy to take care of. But, you don't put the gravel vac down into the sand. Instead you swirl it over the top of the sand to get at all the stuff you need to suck up. Also, your HOB filters will only be negatively affected by the sand if the current is strung enough to get the sand sucked up into the filters.

I did one tank with a mix of old medium sized gravel mixed with some sand and my plants are out of control in that tank! I do have two 6,700K t-5 bulbs on that tank though. And I do fertilize that tank with seachem and seachem excel. -not to try to sell the product or anything. In fact if you end up using some val I would suggest using less ferts if you use them. Seachem apparently can make val melt. Not sure about that as mine was rockin' and then all died off a month ago.
I got some of my lights for cheap on craigslist. I like t-5's best, but cfl's are good too. Just make sure you get them with freshwater bulbs, iuf you go that route. Some fixtures come with actinic bulbs for corals- not good for plants...
Pool filter sand is cheap, if you have a pool store around you. Playsand is wicked cheap too. Just don't go with the white stuff.
Hmm, what kind of substrate do you have? Cichlid folks often use crushed shell or coral substrates. Not so good for a lot of native fish.

I did one tank with a mix of old medium sized gravel mixed with some sand and my plants are out of control in that tank! I do have two 6,700K t-5 bulbs on that tank though. And I do fertilize that tank with seachem and seachem excel. -not to try to sell the product or anything. In fact if you end up using some val I would suggest using less ferts if you use them. Seachem apparently can make val melt. Not sure about that as mine was rockin' and then all died off a month ago.
I got some of my lights for cheap on craigslist. I like t-5's best, but cfl's are good too. Just make sure you get them with freshwater bulbs, iuf you go that route. Some fixtures come with actinic bulbs for corals- not good for plants...
Pool filter sand is cheap, if you have a pool store around you. Playsand is wicked cheap too. Just don't go with the white stuff.
Hmm, what kind of substrate do you have? Cichlid folks often use crushed shell or coral substrates. Not so good for a lot of native fish.

i have 10000k temp lighting for the bulbs and for the substrate i just have regular black gravel on the bottom and i just added a natural stone pea gravel layer on top of that

You mention the color temperature of the bulbs you have, but I do not think you've mentioned how much light there will be. The amount of light will be more important than the color temperature of the bulb.

the lighting will be what ever the bulbs will be? lol its near a window but does not get sunlight from the window. so what ever bulbs i choose is how much lighting there will be i have 2 ballasts that hold 1 bulb each about 18" or so?

the lighting will be what ever the bulbs will be? lol its near a window but does not get sunlight from the window. so what ever bulbs i choose is how much lighting there will be i have 2 ballasts that hold 1 bulb each about 18" or so?

Maybe the easiest direction for you would be to get a bag of CaribSea Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate and mix it in with the substrate you already have. http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/B001EUE80S this stuff works great and I have done what I am suggesting with excellent results.
You might want to remove a portion of your old substrate depending on how deep it is. About 3" is a good amount to have in the tank.
Next, you have old school t-8 light strips right? Get full spectrum/grow bulbs for them and replace them every 6-12 months.
Here is a list of low light plants that should do well in your tank. This seller is excellent too.
http://www.aquariump...Plants_s/25.htm
The other thing you might want to do is go out to a pond or swamp or river and look for aquatic plants growing in shady areas, or what would be shady when there are leaves on the trees. You may have to dig through old leaves and other detritus to find the living plants sheltered beneath. You should be able to find some still. The closer you look the more you find. I scored a bunch of plants last week. Many of them were tiny, but are growing quickly. Some stay small and make good ground cover.
Have fun with it!

well i just got some drift wood in from drfostersmith. added it in the tank! looks awesome but bare( yeah i know about the tannins) what plants can i get that will attach to the wood? i want something that will look nice. eventually everything fake in the tank is comming out and real is going in

well i just got some drift wood in from drfostersmith. added it in the tank! looks awesome but bare( yeah i know about the tannins) what plants can i get that will attach to the wood? i want something that will look nice. eventually everything fake in the tank is comming out and real is going in

Java Fern and Java Moss will take root on driftwood. They Will need to be tied down or wedged onto the driftwood for a while in order to take hold. There are several different kinds of Java Fern. Anubias will also root onto wood with a little help. There are several different kinds. They tend to be on the delicate side and expensive, but nice looking plants.

why are you recommending 6.5K bulbs over something higher? i thought the higher K rating was better for plants. i just got 18K bulbs, are these not going to be good for plants?