Hello all. I am new to the forum. I am considering getting into natives. I have been keeping tropical fish for a while now, but a couple of years ago I had to give up my fishroom because we had a baby. I have been eyeballing the garage ever since. The thing that has held me back is the fact that it isn't heated. If I want to keep tropicals out there it is either going to mean an expensive HVAC project or a lot of money in heaters and power bills. Thus a major appeal of keeping natives. My issue is that I live in Illinois, and with the fish virus laws I find that I may not be able to remove fish from our local waters. I have seen conflicting information as to the legality of collecting for home aquaria. I have tried contacting the Illinois DNR, and gotten no response. My interpretation is that this lack of response means there is a lack of interest on the part of the DNR on regulating aquarist. I would hate to find out the hard way that my interpretation is incorrect. Could someone please shed some light on the VHS laws? The way I interpret the law you can't take bait fish to other waters, and prohibited species may not be taken at all. The part that may be an issue is that you aren't allowed to transport water from the waters edge. This would make transporting fish extremely difficult as fish would need to be acclimated to water from home on site, and cross contamination would have to be prevented. Am I wrong? Please help a new guy out.

According to a conversation I had about 15 months ago with a normally well informed collector, Illinois laws are very restrictive on collecting native fish. He told me of a case where a scientist with a scientific collector permit was fined for leaving the permit in his car and not having it on his person in the water. Of course, subject knowledge and predilection of which laws they tend to enforce can vary widely from one enforcement officer to the next.

Hopefully you will get a more informed reply from some of the active Illinois residents. I would certainly like to know more about what is going on there. Indiana apparently is much less restrictive as long as you don't mess with protected species or collect game fish in nets or traps.

A trick I learned from another NANFA member: when asked what you are doing wading around with a net, tell them you are looking for some fishing minnows. It is something they will understand.

Chuck Church
Indianapolis, Indiana USA

According to a conversation I had about 15 months ago with a normally well informed collector, Illinois laws are very restrictive on collecting native fish. He told me of a case where a scientist with a scientific collector permit was fined for leaving the permit in his car and not having it on his person in the water. Of course, subject knowledge and predilection of which laws they tend to enforce can vary widely from one enforcement officer to the next.

Hopefully you will get a more informed reply from some of the active Illinois residents. I would certainly like to know more about what is going on there. Indiana apparently is much less restrictive as long as you don't mess with protected species or collect game fish in nets or traps.

A trick I learned from another NANFA member: when asked what you are doing wading around with a net, tell them you are looking for some fishing minnows. It is something they will understand.

Chuck Church
Indianapolis, Indiana USA

I don't know about the collecting but I don't sell frozen game fish to taxidermists in Illinois (I grow them out in a ponds as a niche market) because Illinois wants me to buy a $100.00 permit to do so. I all truth I don't think that permit applies to what I do, but they make the rules. I only get one or two requests in Illinois so I don't think the expense of the permit is worth it. So any taxidermists in Illinois are out of luck.

Edited by az9, 06 January 2010 - 02:45 PM.

Alex,

Welcome to the NANFA forum.
I think you'll find your interest in native fish keeping and fish watching very rewarding.
I see your post as two primary questions with a tangent begging for comment

I'm also an Illinois resident and I'll start with the collection side of the question...There is some conflict on the wording of the emergency VHS order and I'm afraid you're likely to get different responses from people in writing or over the phone versus authorities you're likely to encounter in the field. Some might indicate "if it's not on the list, it's fine to collect as bait". Others might see the order as more strict and feel "no fish may be removed from the drainage". I must admit this is a hastily worded emergency order that honestly requires further state definition to be properly enforced. If you live on a creek and keep fish from that creek, are you really removing the fish from that water source? I'm sorry I can't give you a firm answer on the emergency order but I can say that Illinois has odd law prior to the emergency order. In Illinois bait has a definition that restricts the use of anything other than cyprinids (excluding carps) but includes some amphibians and crayfish. Naturally possession of endangered fish is out of the question and I treat threatened fish as I do endangered.

You can keep native fish from around the country but you should not keep fish from other states that fall in the Illinois endangered species list. Illinois makes no distinction between fish from this or other states in this regard. You also cannot import fish from states on the ban list indicated in the emergency VHS order.

Aside from Illinois law, I would not be terribly concerned about fish acclimation with the exception of temperature. Most native fish are rather tough and can handle long trips. I regularly move fish 1000 miles in my car and change water a few time at hotels over a week if necessary. As long as I observe temperature and use a little salt along with dechlorinator, I have excellent success with transporting fish. Now you have to keep in mind that some fish tend die when you handle them...most experienced NANFA members know the various fish I speak of and these fish should only be collected at just the right time with just the right equipment and careful acclimation but that's a whole different topic.

As far a garage keeping fish....It's been at or below zero during the nights where I live and I could not keep natives in my poorly insulated garage. If you can keep water from freezing over the winter, you should be fine but would need to move fish indoors over the summer since again my poorly insulated garage gets into the triple digits during the summer.

Thanks for joining the forum and I hope I've helped a bit.

It sounds like I need to talk to the local Conservation Police Officers and find out how they interpret the law before investigating the river with net in hand. I think this approach may also help developing trust with the CPOs so they don't bother me when I am out.

Any idea how long the VHS restrictions will be in place, or when the state will take another look at the order.

Uland, you are right about the temperature in the garage. It is currently uninsulated and can reach brutal extremes. I would have to insulate and even then it may still get too hot or cold. When I think about it the heat is actually more likely to pose a problem than the cold. I could easily enough keep the water from freezing over, but if it gets too hot I have no way to cool it down. With most of the fish I would be looking at being river fish. Some hot, low oxygen water could be catastrophic. Maybe I will set up a tank with no fish out there and watch the temperature of the water with no input from me over the next year.

In the mean time, even if I can't keep them in the garage there are a few tanks scattered around the house that I could convert to natives. Its all moot if I can't collect locally though. I have access to the Mackinaw River, its a tributary of the Illinois, and I was planning on collecting out there. If I have to buy fish on the internet, or travel out of state I just can't justify the expense with needing to care for a toddler.

Native fish keeping does sound like a fun addition to the aquarium hobby, and a really great way to teach people to appreciate what nature has placed around us. Hopefully I will be able to participate soon.

It sounds like I need to talk to the local Conservation Police Officers and find out how they interpret the law before investigating the river with net in hand. I think this approach may also help developing trust with the CPOs so they don't bother me when I am out.

I think that's a great idea but remember that you only need a fishing license and a legal net to investigate the water. The question really has to do with the legality of taking fish home. Don't let the VHS rule discourage you from looking.

Any idea how long the VHS restrictions will be in place, or when the state will take another look at the order.

No clue but I'd guess it's here to stay.

In the mean time, even if I can't keep them in the garage there are a few tanks scattered around the house that I could convert to natives. Its all moot if I can't collect locally though. I have access to the Mackinaw River, its a tributary of the Illinois, and I was planning on collecting out there. If I have to buy fish on the internet, or travel out of state I just can't justify the expense with needing to care for a toddler.

We're out fishing quite a bit not all that far from you if you don't mind a little drive. We'd love to have you and other readers along but to be honest at this time of year the creeks are pretty well frozen but soon enough darters will be in full glory.
Another thing to keep in mind about many NANFA members...we like to share and if you come along on some of these trips I'll try and bring you some fish from out of state if you'd like.

I'll send you a PM so we can communicate off forum.