Blackbanded Sun Enneacanthus chaetodon Breeding

During Feb 25-28 the Southern Division of AFS (Amer Fisheries Soc) is having their annual meeting in Asheville NC, including a symposium on blackbanded sunfish. I'm giving a talk on propagating E.chaetodon as a tool for restoring depleted or extirpated populations. My experience is limited to raising just a few dozen in aquaria and wading pools, so I'd like to get input from you folks who breed other sunfish for commercial or agency use, and from anybody who's worked with E.chaetodon.

My initial round of questions:

1) Does E.chaetodon need winter chill to breed, or can they spawn even if kept room temp year-round?

2) Does male care for free-swimming fry like Lepomis, or do the fry just scatter after swim-up?

3) First Feeding: How many days from spawning to first feeding? Acceptable food size range and types of plankton+benthos? Most cladocerans are probably too big. Rotifers, copepod nauplii, small-grade Artemia seem to work, what else? Strategies to create blooms of suitable small plankton or benthos in small ponds or plastic pools?

4) Water pH and Ca/Mg hardness: If raising chaetodon for release into acidic, very soft water, should they be spawned and raised in those conditions, or in neutral water with moderate hardness (for faster growth and easier water quality maintenance)? If raised in neutral water, will they have trouble adapting when released into acidic water? Are there osmoregulatory adaptations that are “fixed” during early development ? (I've read that thermal tolerance in some fish is determined by exposure as fry).

5) Any other differences you'd emphasize about propagating blackbandeds vs other Centrarchids? I'm guessing the state agency folks tasked to do this will be more familiar with gamefish and need to adjust their perspective a bit to deal with Enneacanthus.


THANKS in advance. Maybe some of you can attend!
http://www.sdafs.org...010/default.htm

Gerald

1) Does E.chaetodon need winter chill to breed, or can they spawn even if kept room temp year-round?
My limited experience suggests not but getting a strong / well defined cohort would benefit from having ripe females "stackup" by all conditioning at same time but held back until all can spawn at about same time.

2) Does male care for free-swimming fry like Lepomis, or do the fry just scatter after swim-up?
Does not care for free swimming fry (LARVAE), neither do most Lepomis. Care only for embryos and prolarvae.


3) First Feeding: How many days from spawning to first feeding? Acceptable food size range and types of plankton+benthos? Most cladocerans are probably too big. Rotifers, copepod nauplii, small-grade Artemia seem to work, what else? Strategies to create blooms of suitable small plankton or benthos in small ponds or plastic pools? I would avoid plastic pools unless deep or well shaded to keep temperatures down. Follow standard methods for sunfish culture in hatchery management texts: Fill pond 10 - 14 days prior to first feeding, 10 days for small larvae like with Enneacanthus spp., apply a 12-12-12 or inorganic fertlizer at 2-week intervals to keep water slightly green. Managers will base on experience with their facilities and season.



4) Water pH and Ca/Mg hardness: If raising chaetodon for release into acidic, very soft water, should they be spawned and raised in those conditions, or in neutral water with moderate hardness (for faster growth and easier water quality maintenance)? If raised in neutral water, will they have trouble adapting when released into acidic water? Are there osmoregulatory adaptations that are “fixed” during early development ? (I've read that thermal tolerance in some fish is determined by exposure as fry).
If breeding in hatchery ponds, then manipulation of pH, hardness, and alkalinity maybe difficult / very expensive. I would use existing water quality of hatchery during production phase, then expend resources on acclimating fish to receiving waters. This would require an open surface volume rather than a bag to enable extended confinement during acclimation phase. May also require a field test of methods. Take care with water quality to have maximal survival during production and acclimation. Let selection forces come from recieving habitat.

5) Any other differences you'd emphasize about propagating blackbandeds vs other Centrarchids? I'm guessing the state agency folks tasked to do this will be more familiar with gamefish and need to adjust their perspective a bit to deal with Enneacanthus.
Treat optimized plankton bloom like done for white bass / sunshine bass; based on rotifers during blackbanded larval stage. I would stress size / quality more than done for Lepomis spp. Push for a single cohort or at least limit breeding duration to less than on month limiting size variation at harvest. Fecundity of blackbanded will be much lower than bluegill or redear so more females per acre needed for similar number of fry


THANKS in advance. Maybe some of you can attend!
http://www.sdafs.org...010/default.htm

Gerald
[/quote]

Wish I was attending, but the symposium is being put on by my supervisor and colleagues so I'll be there in spirit.

Gerald,

Are you not concerned about effective population size of animals to be stocked? I would be very concerned. How many head are you targeting to stock?

Well, NOW I am. Would love to hear your suggestions. There may be tradeoffs between how many wild broodstock are available and being faithful to local genetics. Suppose we want to restore an extirpated population in southeast VA, but can only come up with five fish from nearby streams in that river basin. How would you decide which is worse: a breeding program that starts with just five fish, or crossing them with broodstock from the next river basin, or maybe 2 or more basins away?

Gerald,

Are you not concerned about effective population size of animals to be stocked? I would be very concerned. How many head are you targeting to stock?

Well, NOW I am. Would love to hear your suggestions. There may be tradeoffs between how many wild broodstock are available and being faithful to local genetics. Suppose we want to restore an extirpated population in southeast VA, but can only come up with five fish from nearby streams in that river basin. How would you decide which is worse: a breeding program that starts with just five fish, or crossing them with broodstock from the next river basin, or maybe 2 or more basins away?

Gerald,

Better or worse is in my opinion only an opinion. Some purest insist on using only local broodstock, even if only a pair, is better than risking the disruption of locally adapted gene complexes by bringing in animals from outside drainage. Others (hybrid vigor people) would say increasing genetic diversity might increase the founded populations ability to deal with challenges of a perturbed habitat. I tend to waffle.


With blackbanded sunfish my opinion is the more fish the better from the same drainage; preferably from multiple cohorts / year classes. Therefore not same seine hawl in same pool. It would be nice to have a geneticist get involved to at least quantify the genetic variation you have in the streams of the same basin. The gel-jockey can provide reccomendations as to which individuals have the highest breeding value and possibly to whom they should be mated to conserve genetic diversity. If variation appears very low, then concerned parties may need to consider bringing in fish from outside. You want to avoid hatchery selection which can be difficult when propogation methods not optimized. Many propogation efforts I have seen or read about may have caused more harm than good by having a only a few breeders provide animals for stocking.

Several questions for you. What kind of resources do have for spawning and rearing broods? Ponds or tanks? How many? Acreage if ponds? Will permits / resources allow capture and holding of more broodfish from drainage? What is the timing of broodstock acquisition relative to stocking fish into receiving waters? Seasons? Will the fish be dispersed as stocked through out available habitat or be concentrated in a particular location deemed most typical (from your perspective) of ideal for the species. Many past failures / successes with similar efforts I think attributable to interactions between dispersal pattern, timing and reproductive status of animals stocked. Is the state funding this effort? Your intended new population, if it takes / becomes established, will it be able to communicate genetically with others through existing corridors (or will it be isolated)? Will this be a problem (will be a factor concerning chioce of broodstock? Are efforts or plans underway to restore corridors and adjacent habitats?

I am thinking metapopulation restoration, to maximize likelihood blackbandeds will persist.

I think several of the questions you are asking are not ones Gerald is seeking to asnwer, but many of the points you make and questions you raise are the reasons why some states have been extremely wary of propagation. There are way too few fish, plus the habtiat is too disturbed and fragmented. For example, the comprable habitat to what I've been described they are more frequent in NC and the pine barrens of NJ is essentially gone in Maryland (Kilian et al. 2009). Rangewide, what is left of existing populations are widely seperated (i.e. hundreds of miles often with salt barriers).

Reads like habitat limitations will prevent successful restoration. Persistance of remaining stocks may still require intervention like Gerald is considering, otherwise random events will eventually extirpate remaining populations.

Good point. I will recommend that broodstock should be wild-caught only. Hatchery-born fish should not be kept for breeding, especially if born and raised in water that is unlike the water they will be released in. This is in-line with my previous question about whether to try raising them in soft acid water, which you advised against. Let selection for acid-tolerance occur after release, as you said (with careful acclimation of course).

You want to avoid hatchery selection which can be difficult when propogation methods not optimized. Many propogation efforts I have seen or read about may have caused more harm than good by having a only a few breeders provide animals for stocking.

Your questions are good food for thought but I'm not the guy to answer most of them. There are no propagation plans I'm aware of, and chaetodon is still pretty common in my state (NC) so I doubt we'll be doing that here. It appears they're vulnerable to extirpation in FL, GA, VA, MD, DE, PA. Matt's colleagues at MD-DNR asked if any NC folks had anything to present on E.chaetodon ecology or conservation. I said I could do a breeding talk if there was any interest (assuming he'd say naw, that's not our focus), but instead he said sure! So here I am. The talk is just 15 min so I can't cover a whole lot, but I'm writing up more that I'll make available to whoever wants it (including AC Editor of course).

Release and dispersal IS something I want to discuss. My gut feeling is to release small groups of 20 to 30 young in near-shore SAV patches by boat or by foot over as much good habitat as possible. I suspect they're slow to disperse and fearful of open water, so "managed dispersal" will be far more important than with most other fish. Regarding season, I dunno and would appreciate ideas. My gut feeling is Sep or Oct when water is 18-23C, so they can get settled in and feed well before cold weather. Is there any survival vs release date info on other sunfish?

Several questions for you. What kind of resources do have for spawning and rearing broods? Ponds or tanks? How many? Acreage if ponds? Will permits / resources allow capture and holding of more broodfish from drainage? What is the timing of broodstock acquisition relative to stocking fish into receiving waters? Seasons? Will the fish be dispersed as stocked through out available habitat or be concentrated in a particular location deemed most typical (from your perspective) of ideal for the species. Many past failures / successes with similar efforts I think attributable to interactions between dispersal pattern, timing and reproductive status of animals stocked. Is the state funding this effort? Your intended new population, if it takes / becomes established, will it be able to communicate genetically with others through existing corridors (or will it be isolated)? Will this be a problem (will be a factor concerning chioce of broodstock? Are efforts or plans underway to restore corridors and adjacent habitats?

Edited by gerald, 12 January 2010 - 05:19 PM.

Gerald,

Look up a paper in the journal Biological Conservation: 113(1) on pages 13-22 by William J. Poly entitled "Design and evaluation of a translocation strategy for the fringed darter (Etheostoma crossopterum) in Illinois". The effort was an unqualified success that was unfortunately not cited in a recent evaluation of similar stocking efforts. The cited efforts were largely unsuccessful in part owing to concerns I mentioned earlier. I helped Bill with the project and saw how his method of translocation very effectively matched the performance of a hatchery.

A take home point is that his fish began breeding behavior within minutes of the introduction and did not appear to disperse from the stocking sites. Thier offspring did the dispersing.

I recommend breeding your wild caught blackbanded sunfish in a hatchery using methods that maximize the number of parents inlvolved, grow them to maturity, then stock into receiving habitat at beginning of breeding season. Ideally the fish will be primed to breed as soon as they hit the water. Hopefully, dispersal will be minimal until breeding season complete. Resulting larvae will do the dispersing. If juveniles stocked outside of breeding season (like most previous efforts deemed failures), then many blackbandeds will be unable to find each when breeding season begins because population density being too low. Effectively, such excessive dispersal can not be differentiated from losses associated with mortality.

Edited by centrarchid, 12 January 2010 - 06:06 PM.

I have bred these in both aquariums and in outdoor ponds (rubber lined). Everything mentioned so far all sounds great. One thing I have noticed is the presence of wood or other objects in the water as breeding sites may be important. The males always seem to choose sites up off the substrate when they are offered. Maybe this is not that significant but it caught my interest. Also I have not done anything to adjust my rather basic water and have had as many as 75 young from just one female after a breeding season. There is no need to winter the fish to get them to breed and they spawn multiple times when in good condition. I believe I wrote up a thread on here with photos at one time about some of them breeding in a aquarium a couple years ago, it is probably still on here if you do a search.

This topic gives me the idea that someone should look into what's happening with wetlands mitigation in appropriate habitat.
The small recreated wetlands might be ideal for experimenting with stocking Enneacanthus. The small landscaping/drainage ponds that seem to be added to every new housing development are another idea. They are made from scratch, contain no predatory fish and could be designed to incorporate features that would promote sunnie survival.
Massachusetts has experimented with small success in breeding E. obesus in cranberry bogs and small [0.5 acre], self contained marshy ponds for mosquito control.

The real question is whether there is enough appropriate habitat [natural or manmade] to support reintroduction into extirpated regions. Wetlands are like brain cells - once they're gone....

I'd be highly skeptical of the water quality of a retention/detention pond in a new housing development as a conservation strategy. You just stuck an aquatic environment within an area of high impervious surface and nutrient inputs, with usually zero riparian area and submerged habitat. In theory yes (like your mitigated wetland idea), but the reality is stormwater ponds are usually mowed to the waters surface, treated with copper sulfate, and invaded by tolerant aquatic species. Convince the developer, the realators, or the home buyers, that the bare pond shouldn't have a fountain in the center, and that instead it should have some button bush, submerged and emergent vegetation, and be free of large piscivores (i.e. game fish), then we're talking...

Brian,

Do you think it is possible to make super-attractive nest sites for blackbanded sunfish that can be removed once laden with eggs. We do it routinely with Lepomis spp.. Would enable getting multiple broods from a given sire and raising them separately if derived from different dams or different batches by the same dam. Multiple sires would be nice as well. Might even be possible have a given dam breed with more than one sire by moving her mid-spawning between males.

What do you think is limiting the number of young produced per female per breeding season? In the pond setting, do you manage for insect / predator control? What do you think of breeding in tanks and transplanting embryos / prolarvae into fishless growout ponds? Will not work with larvae since too delicate.

I think a couple hundred offspring should be possible / batch. To increase probability of success, thousands of subadults will be required. By many dams and sires.

Ah yes, March 2007, here it is: http://forum.nanfa.o...ndpost__p__9157 I also found good articles by Bob Bock and Peter Rollo.

Brian - can I use a few of your photos for my AFS presentation? spawning, sex differences, eggs, prolarvae, larvae, juvie ... Anybody else have decent pix they could share with me for this talk?

I have bred these in both aquariums and in outdoor ponds (rubber lined). Everything mentioned so far all sounds great. One thing I have noticed is the presence of wood or other objects in the water as breeding sites may be important. The males always seem to choose sites up off the substrate when they are offered. Maybe this is not that significant but it caught my interest. Also I have not done anything to adjust my rather basic water and have had as many as 75 young from just one female after a breeding season. There is no need to winter the fish to get them to breed and they spawn multiple times when in good condition. I believe I wrote up a thread on here with photos at one time about some of them breeding in a aquarium a couple years ago, it is probably still on here if you do a search.

I'd be highly skeptical of the water quality of a retention/detention pond in a new housing development as a conservation strategy.

It's true, not all retention ponds are created equal. Sadly, many are like you say, especially older ones.
I had more in mind the types of retention ponds/systems I see being built recently. In liberal Ma, especially in the affluent suburbs, environmental restrictions on developers make mitigation the magic word. Take the pond you described above and add buffer zones [some with native plants added], greenways, turtle fences, salamander tunnels and especially shallow slow flow areas full of cattails and bullrushes. I've never heard of using copper in those types of places. Algae is not usually bad between the emergent plants and the ubiquitous milfoil.
My idea is based on finding E. obesus in many of those types of settings as well as tiny fire ponds, ditches and beaver ponds. Obviouisly a different animal, but maybe similar enough to carry my point. The key is the small shallow water bodies, free from bass and bluegills. Up here, deep freezes limit the survival of bass and bluegills from winterkill in the shallow ponds. The banded sunnies and redfin pickeral seem able to survive winterkill that cleans out the bass.
Don't know if anything can keep 'em out below the freeze line.

An interesting idea to think about but like with most threatened species IMO, the smart money and effort should go to repairing/replacing/protecting the critical habitat. In the mean time, we should be all about getting more of these babies into the hands of private breeders before they go protected everywhere. I've got high hopes for mine.

An interesting idea to think about but like with most threatened species IMO, the smart money and effort should go to repairing/replacing/protecting the critical habitat. In the mean time, we should be all about getting more of these babies into the hands of private breeders before they go protected everywhere. I've got high hopes for mine.

I'd agree with your first sentance except the order you list what to do with habitat. It is far cheapaer to project it than replace and repair, I don't even thing that is really open to argument. Just don't ruin it and mitigation "restoration" isn't necessary. The second statement I'm a little confused over...putting listed species, from a non-listed area, into private circulation just so they can stay in the hobby for the sake of just being able to have them? Anyways, BBS aren't legal to possess in Maryland regardless of the source. Bob Bock has a permit for his. This (can't possess a listed species regardless of it being from another state where it is not listed) is actually something I think is more common than people think...and again, if the species (BBS in this case) hadn't seen so much of its habitat wiped out over almost the entire Atlantic coast, then it may not have been listed in states in the first place...

The second statement I'm a little confused over...putting listed species, from a non-listed area, into private circulation just so they can stay in the hobby for the sake of just being able to have them?

No, not just so I can have them, and of course not in states where they are protected. I'm astonished you get that from anything I've ever said.
I'd see them bred in captivity because when the last ones are gone from the last cedar swamp, the ones you have in your jars won't do a dam bit of good.

No, not just so I can have them, and of course not in states where they are protected. I'm astonished you get that from anything I've ever said.
I'd see them bred in captivity because when the last ones are gone from the last cedar swamp, the ones you have in your jars won't do a dam bit of good.

Well that's why I was confused Mike, because that would be way out of character for you to say something like that (i.e. I don't think you said or meant that at all). Sorry if it came off that way.

Hi Gerald. I've bred the stock I got at the NANFA SC annual meeting through three generations in indoor aquariums. I have over wintered my stock in a two gallon tank, kept in a small refrigerator for 1 -2 months. I'm not sure if it's the cold that gets them into spawning mode, or the darkness, or a combination of both. There is a literature on melatonin accumulation during winter and a spring melatonin drop preceding spawning in many temperate species, and I suspect the hormone also plays a role in spawning of this species. In many organisms, melatonin production is influenced by light levels alone, although some studies suggest that in some fish species, it may be influenced by cold as well. If you opt to keep them at room temperature, try keeping them in the dark for a month or so. My fish spawned at 80 degrees F., with 12+ hour photoperiod.

Peter Rollo's spawning account says that males will gaurd fry. I have never seen this. The fry are small and hard for me to see, so I may have missed initial hatches. Each time I've had fry, I've encountered them as they were free swimming in the tank, while the adults were present. I immediately removed the adults from the tank. Within the next few days, additional fry appeared. My hypothesis is that the fry produce some kind of substance within the first week or so after hatching that discourages the adults from preying on them. I think this substance wears off within a few days. One spawn that I allowed to remain with the adults eventually disappeared, so I assumed the adults ate them, after an initial "grace" period.

The only other centrarchid I've spawned indoors is Lepomis megalotis. Fry my observation, I don't believe the males were gaurding the fry so much as guarding the territory. Males will spawn over previous spawns, and you can observe two or three staggered broods in single nest. I suspect this is similar for black banded sunfish, although (since I have trouble seeing them) I can't prove it.

The black banded fry were well able to eat small brine shrimp, so infusoria weren't really necessary. The fry can eat brine shrimp that are slightly larger than their own heads, often choking them down in a couple of bites. My fry were also really fussy, and wouldn not eat microworms. In addition to brine shrimp, they also really love vinegar eels.

I raise my fish in rainwater, collected at the rain gutter downspout that drains my roof, at a ph of 6.0-6.2 with no discernible hardness. I have never tried raising them in anything other than rain water. I don't know for a fact, but I suspect that the adults won't spawn in water with very much hardness in it. In his TFH and American Currents articles, Peter Rollo reported that his black bandeds sickened and died in his tap water, which had modest mineral levels.

Because ammonia is less toxic at low pH's and more toxic at high pH's, I speculate that survivability might be improved by frequent water changes if you keep them at a higher pH.

Both times when I moved young fish outdoors to mature, I lost all stock. I'm not sure why--whether predators, or temperature. We had some days when air temperatures reached 97-100 degrees. It's possible that without the ability to move to deeper (cooler) water, they died of heat shock.

During Feb 25-28 the Southern Division of AFS (Amer Fisheries Soc) is having their annual meeting in Asheville NC, including a symposium on blackbanded sunfish. I'm giving a talk on propagating E.chaetodon as a tool for restoring depleted or extirpated populations. My experience is limited to raising just a few dozen in aquaria and wading pools, so I'd like to get input from you folks who breed other sunfish for commercial or agency use, and from anybody who's worked with E.chaetodon.

My initial round of questions:

1) Does E.chaetodon need winter chill to breed, or can they spawn even if kept room temp year-round?

2) Does male care for free-swimming fry like Lepomis, or do the fry just scatter after swim-up?

3) First Feeding: How many days from spawning to first feeding? Acceptable food size range and types of plankton+benthos? Most cladocerans are probably too big. Rotifers, copepod nauplii, small-grade Artemia seem to work, what else? Strategies to create blooms of suitable small plankton or benthos in small ponds or plastic pools?

4) Water pH and Ca/Mg hardness: If raising chaetodon for release into acidic, very soft water, should they be spawned and raised in those conditions, or in neutral water with moderate hardness (for faster growth and easier water quality maintenance)? If raised in neutral water, will they have trouble adapting when released into acidic water? Are there osmoregulatory adaptations that are “fixed” during early development ? (I've read that thermal tolerance in some fish is determined by exposure as fry).

5) Any other differences you'd emphasize about propagating blackbandeds vs other Centrarchids? I'm guessing the state agency folks tasked to do this will be more familiar with gamefish and need to adjust their perspective a bit to deal with Enneacanthus.


THANKS in advance. Maybe some of you can attend!
http://www.sdafs.org...010/default.htm

Gerald