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New 20 Gallon Long

Started by Guest_nickag9_* , Jan 17 2010 01:00 AM

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#1 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 01:00 AM

Hey guys,

I'm new to the site and I just finished setting up my first native tank. The tank is a 20 gallon long and while it's not a huge tank, we all have to start somewhere. I would like to stock the tank with a few of the smaller sunfish species, particulary a few blue or organge spotted and maybe a banded if I can find one. Anyway, I have the tank up and running using two brand new AquaClear HOB filters and I wanted to get some input on the cycling process before I went any further. Since the tank won't have a heater I decided to go ahead and use feeder fish to help speed up the cycling process. Right now the tank is stocked with 3 Rosy Red minnows and a Crawdad. Now, when it comes to the Nitrogen cycle I'm still pretty lost and since this is my first real aquarium I want to make sure I take my time and do this right before adding the sunfish. My main concern is what to do next? I know that I will eventually need to start changing the water and that I need to test for Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite in order to determine when the tank is fully cycled... but where do I start? Sorry for such a novice post, I'm just a bit overwhelmed at the moment and want to stay on the right track. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance!

Oh and here are a few pictures of the tank as it sits now:

Posted Image

- Nick

#2 Guest_sonix215_*

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:10 AM

nice looking tank for a first start. about the cycling process can take anywhere from 2-6 weeks to fully cycle the tank. in the time being you will most likely get a "bacteria bloom" which will cause to the to have a white cloudy look to it. this will eventually go away and clear up as this is due to part of the process. I change my water once every week. your best bet would to continue with water changes and invest in a good test kit ( the drops not the strips). Keep up with it and when it all read "0" your set to go. just don't overstock or overfeed.

#3 Guest_apistomaster_*

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 06:23 PM

I think you should add some sand to fill the interstices between the pebble substrate. The uneaten food getting trapped in between the pebbles is aggravating your bacterial bloom problem. You should begin making water changes from the beginning as that will dilute wastes and not interfere with cycling in the least.
The AquaClears are a wise choice. They are a versatile HOB filter that do not require proprietary cartridges. I do not use any carbon and I haven't for many decades. Water changes are more than adequate.

#4 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 07:38 PM

Hi Nick! My advice it to get a copy of "The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" by David Boruchowitz. It has the best description of the nitrogen cycle for an entry level hobbyist that I've seen. All the other advice is good, too, except where he tells you that you don't need an airstone. I disagree with him there.

I'll give you my short explanation of cycling. I can't tell you how long it will take because there are a lot of variables here. If someone tells you it will take X days to cycle a tank, take it with a few grains of salt.

When you start cycling, you will first get measurable ammonia. In a few days, the nitrite levels will begin to rise and the ammonia levels begin to fall as the first set of bacteria consume ammonia and produce nitrites. Later, nitrites will fall and nitrates will rise as the second set of bacteria consume nitrites and produce nitrates .Nitrates are controlled by water changes. After you no longer have measurable ammonia or nitrites, your tank is cycled and you may begin slowly adding fish. After your tank is cycled, you should never have measurable ammonia or nitrites. If you do, you have a problem you need to fix immediately.

#5 Guest_sounguru_*

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Posted 17 January 2010 - 08:03 PM

Page 22 will explain cycling.....it is a little dated but the 99% of the info is still good....

Tropical Fish Beginner Guide.

#6 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:20 PM

Thanks for the great info guys!

So far the tank is doing well. The water became cloudy after the first day or so but has recently cleared up. The 3 minnows are eating and pooping like crazy so I can only assume the cycling process is under way! To verify that I went out and bought the API freshwater test kit (with the drops) and did some testing tonight. Keep in mind that as of tomorrow the tank will have been up and running for one full week. Anyway, here are my current readings:

Ammonia: 1.5 ppm
Nitrite: .25 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm

If I understand the cycling process correctly, the presence of all three is a good sign. I intend to do my first water change tomorrow to help knock the Ammonia levels down below 1 ppm but is there anything else I should do? Thanks again for all the help and hopefully I'll have this tank cycled and ready for some sunfish here soon. :happy:

#7 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 06:47 PM

Keep an eye on the levels. Some people believe you shouldn't do water changes because it makes the cycling take longer. I'd rather do water changes to keep the levels at the least toxic possible and hopefully stress the fish less.

#8 Guest_Gene2308_*

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:17 PM

I'm one of those people ^^ :smile2:

That said, I'm willing to entertain both -- either way cycles the tank.

How is your cycle now? Done?

#9 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 25 January 2010 - 01:57 PM

Well... I did a 25% water change last Monday (I didn't want to risk extending the cycle but I figured a small WC wouldn't hurt) and I tested the water this past Friday. Nothing had changed at all... Ammonia was still between 1 and 2 ppm, Nitrite at .25 and Nitrate around 10. I guess I'm just going to have to be patient. My two fathead minnows are doing fine, they are very active and responsive when I feed them, and the crawdad is doing his thing. He spends most of his time chilling under the rock that is holding my piece of driftwood down. I know he is eating because as soon as I turn the tank light off he comes out and starts searching the gravel for food. Anyway, I'll test the water again tonight and see if anything has changed.

#10 Guest_Gene2308_*

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:59 AM

Well... I did a 25% water change last Monday (I didn't want to risk extending the cycle but I figured a small WC wouldn't hurt) and I tested the water this past Friday. Nothing had changed at all... Ammonia was still between 1 and 2 ppm, Nitrite at .25 and Nitrate around 10. I guess I'm just going to have to be patient. My two fathead minnows are doing fine, they are very active and responsive when I feed them, and the crawdad is doing his thing. He spends most of his time chilling under the rock that is holding my piece of driftwood down. I know he is eating because as soon as I turn the tank light off he comes out and starts searching the gravel for food. Anyway, I'll test the water again tonight and see if anything has changed.

Not that I'm accusing you of anything, but feed sparingly during the cycle. You wouldn't believe how many tanks I've had people cycle that were SO SLOW TO CYCLE because they fed their fish way too much.

It's hard to estimate in different set-ups, but if you have flakes or pellets hitting the bottom - you're feeding too much. Your fish should be eating almost all of the food before it floats around, getting stuck in filters or sinks to the bed.

If in doubt, just don't feed them. They have much slower metabolic rates than humans and will really be fine...I promise

.

Edited by Gene2308, 26 January 2010 - 08:00 AM.

#11 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:31 AM

Not that I'm accusing you of anything, but feed sparingly during the cycle. You wouldn't believe how many tanks I've had people cycle that were SO SLOW TO CYCLE because they fed their fish way too much.

It's hard to estimate in different set-ups, but if you have flakes or pellets hitting the bottom - you're feeding too much. Your fish should be eating almost all of the food before it floats around, getting stuck in filters or sinks to the bed.

If in doubt, just don't feed them. They have much slower metabolic rates than humans and will really be fine...I promise .

Ok, thanks for the info!

I have been feeding them about twice a day and only a few pellets each time. When they do hit the bottom the crawdad usually scoops them up a few minuntes later. But either way, I'll cut back to once a day and I'll try to minimize the amount of pellets hitting the bottom. Thanks again!

#12 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 28 January 2010 - 10:23 PM

*UPDATE*

Brown Algae, is it common in new tanks???

As you can see in the following picture I have developed a small outbreak of what appears to be some kind of Brown Algae seemingly overnight. It wasn't there yesterday and so far it has only started to grow on top of my fake plants where they are closest to the light...

Posted Image

My tank is not quite fully cycled but it is getting there. It has been setup and running for two and a half weeks now. Right now I have 2 Rosy Red Minnows and 1 Crawdad in the tank to help the cycling process. I am running 2 AC30 filters and I try to keep the light on (It's a Perfect-a-Lite hood with an Eclipse Fluorescent Lamp) for about 8-9 hours a day. The tank does not get very much natural sunlight but occassionally if the blinds are open some light may hit it. Right now my tank parameters are as follows:

Ammonia: 1.5 ppm
Nitrite: 1.0 ppm
Nitrate: 20 ppm
pH: 7.5

The Ammonia level has been fairly constant for the past week and a half but this is the highest I've seen the Nitrite and Nitrate levels. Anyway, is this brown algae common with new tanks? What can I do to get rid of it? I was planning to do a 50% WC this weekend, do you think that will help? Sorry for all of the questions, I'm just not a big fan of this sudden outbreak and I don't want to see it spread. Thanks.

- Nick

#13 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 08:06 AM

Yes, it's very common to get the brown algae with new tanks. Sometimes it's called "new tank algae." The best thing to do is wait. Wipe it off the front glass and try not to let it make you nuts. As the tank matures it will go away on its own. Of course everyone hates it, you get your tank set up and it looks so good, then you get this brown yuck all over everything.

#14 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 11:50 AM

Haha ok, good. I was afraid it was some kind of horrible outbreak that was the result of something I had done wrong. I will continue to wipe it off the fake plants and the glass as I do water changes. Thanks for the info!

#15 Guest_Gene2308_*

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 08:11 AM

Yes, it's very common to get the brown algae with new tanks.

I agree 100% ^^

It is also common to get diatoms (brown algae) in low-light tanks, like most of the ones I've done over the years.

Light brush removal is all it takes. I just deal with the annoyance

. YOu can actually leave it in there all you want - it won't hurt anything.

Edited by Gene2308, 31 January 2010 - 08:12 AM.

#16 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:05 PM

Ok so cycling a new tank is starting to suck... As of yesterday the tank has become cloudy again. Between this and the Brown junk I've about had it with this thing already. Now I haven't tested or changed the water since I noticed the Brown Algae so I intend to do that tonight in an attempt to find out if the cloudiness is the result of another Bacteria Bloom. I still haven't seen a real spike in Nitrites so I'm hoping that is what is happening right now. After I test the water I'm going to do a 50% WC and hope to god the tank starts looking better before I give up. I just want this thing to be cycled so I can add my sunfish!

#17 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 12:11 AM

*UPDATE 02/06/10*

Ok, well it's been a little under four weeks since I setup the 20 gallon and as of tonight it looks like the tank is fully cycled!!!

I just tested the water and the parameters were:

Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 30 ppm

Since the water was getting pretty cloudy and the brown algae was starting to get on my nerves I decided to do a 50% water change and clean the tank really well. I figured it wouldn't hurt anyway since the Nitrates were a little on the high side. The tank is much clearer now and hopefully the brown algae won't come back. I am very pleased the cycling process is completed and it looks like I will be ordering my Bluespotted Sunfish from Sachs Aquaculture sometime early next week. I'll post up some pictures when I get the new fish. Thanks for all of the help so far, this site is great! :mrgreen:

#18 Guest_Gene2308_*

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 08:02 AM

Sunfish? Nah, just go use a #12 cricket hook and a piece of corn and catch something yourself....then after several months of staring at one fish you'll want to seine minnows for a community tank.

That's my method anyway

.

Now that you're cycled, you can do a decent water change and you're all set!

#19 Guest_nickag9_*

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 10:10 AM

Sunfish? Nah, just go use a #12 cricket hook and a piece of corn and catch something yourself....then after several months of staring at one fish you'll want to seine minnows for a community tank.

That's my method anyway .

Now that you're cycled, you can do a decent water change and you're all set!

Well I did a 50% water change yesterday and the tank is looking better than ever. I’ll give it another week before I add any more fish but for now I am very pleased to see the cycling process is complete.

As for stocking the tank, I have no desire to house a single large sunfish. Most of the sunfish I could catch locally (i.e. Bluegill, Longear, Green Sunfish, Pumpinkseed, Redear, Rock Bass and Warmouth) are way too big for a 20 gallon, even if kept alone. The only sunfish species I would consider keeping in my 20 gallon would be a member of the dwarf sunfish family, (i.e. Blue Spotted, Orange Spotted, Banded and Black Banded). And out of those fish, the only one I could catch locally would be the Orange Spotted Sunfish. But instead of braving the winter cold and the 8+ inches of snow outside I'd rather order a pair of Blue Spotted Sunfish from Sachs Aquaculture and wait a few days for them to arrive. Since these sunfish typically stay less than 4 inches in length, I should be able to stock my 20 gallon long with 3 or 4 of them. I figured I would pick up two Blue Spotted Sunfish now, then once the weather gets a bit nicer and the river levels drop I can try to catch two Orange Spotted Sunfish to add to the tank. With the brilliant color of the Orange and Blue Spotted species and their “sunfish” personalities the tank should be quite colorful and plenty entertaining.