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Louisana Crayfish


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#1 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 01:39 PM

Hi all, I recently started raising crayfish, I've gotten into the local crayfish here mainly in Kentucky and Tennessee, the Red River Valley north of Nashville. My female local crays have started laying eggs, I've expended to the electric blue but their still small. I also am raising a same sex crayfish called marmakrebs, I've not had much luck with them. I have quite a few large plastic tanks like 1,000 gallons each.

I am trying to obtain some live Louisana Crayfish, I'm having a terrible time, it seems only resturants and wholesalers have them and they are crammed into a bag and frozen and aren't live at all or to badly gone when you get them to live. Does anyone have a few there willing to part with? I'll gladly pay for them within reason and shipping.

Also I am trying the red claws, does anyone have any advice on them? I've really gotten into this its let me have another look at the great outdoors.

sincerely,

Mike

#2 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 02:10 PM

Hi Mike! I live on the southern edge of the Red River drainage, in Clarksville. Maybe we can go out collecting some time! I don't have any crayfish to share with you, but I can tell you that Procambarus clarki (the Louisiana or red swamp crayfish) is a common wild species in the Jackson Purchase and bottomlands of big rivers like the Ohio, Tennessee, Cumberland, and possibly Green.

A minnow trap baited with hot dogs or cat food tossed into a weedy backwater is likely to get you a few. They sometimes also come out and wander around on land, especially after a rain; I saw perhaps a dozen berried female P. clarki on the roads last time I visited Reelfoot. I don't know Kentucky regs on collecting crayfish; obviously you should check these before going trapping.

#3 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 02:24 PM

Newt,

I would be glad to go collecting with you. Ive been using chicken livers. I took and made some traps out of stoli plastic bottles and lemonade bottles. I ride motorcycles a lot and I've found this hobby lets me go places I want to go. I have a reason now to get out. This weekend Im hitting the Red River again north of Adairville.

Well good to meet you and I would love to head to the Jackson purchase and catch some Louisana Crays.

Regulations in Kentucky are non-existant on crayfish.

Mike

Edited by mikada, 12 March 2010 - 02:28 PM.


#4 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 04:11 PM

Hi Mikada, I've been keeping Marmorkrebs for a while. I've found that they like to have hiding places. I rarely see mine in berry because they hide out most of the time. They may not reproduce if they don't feel secure.

#5 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 05:21 PM

Schambers,

I never see mine either, there all under big rocks I put in the tank. How big do they get mine seem to be not getting bigger than 2 inches when I do see them. What size are thay when they start to reproduce?

Mike

Edited by mikada, 12 March 2010 - 05:22 PM.


#6 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 11:07 PM

Are you measuring the whole length including the claws? If so, they probably need to get a little bigger. If that's just the body length not including claws, then they are plenty big enough to reproduce. I had one get nearly six inches stretched out from tail to claw tips, (I measured her when she died) but usually they stay much smaller. That one was the only crayfish in a large tank with some goldfish. They ate most of her young so there wasn't much competition for food, anything that landed where the goldfish couldn't reach it was hers. Right now I have some in a 10 gallon, and I end up with the tank full and it keeps the size down. Every so often I have to pull some of them out. Unfortunately for the Marmorkrebs, there is now a bullhead in the big tank, so any crayfish in there quickly end up as dinner.

#7 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 01:04 PM

Schambers,

That was measuring from the tail to tip of claws, they might be a tad smaller than 2 inches but close. There in a big tank, soon one a lot bigger. When it warms up outside they get there own 8 foot by 8 foot tank with about a foot of water. Hopefully they will get bigger there. Its dis heartning never seeing them. Sometimes now I will see one run to an algea patch an go in it. Sometimes I see a little head sticking out from under a rock. But 5 or 6 inches would be great if they get that big.

Mike

#8 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 07:46 PM

Schambers,

That was measuring from the tail to tip of claws, they might be a tad smaller than 2 inches but close. There in a big tank, soon one a lot bigger. When it warms up outside they get there own 8 foot by 8 foot tank with about a foot of water. Hopefully they will get bigger there. Its dis heartning never seeing them. Sometimes now I will see one run to an algea patch an go in it. Sometimes I see a little head sticking out from under a rock. But 5 or 6 inches would be great if they get that big.

Mike


They may be a bit small to reproduce, but soon they'll be big enough! If you put them outside, make sure they can't get loose. We don't want those crowding out native species! I've had them get loose in my house, I'll find one in another tank. Once I found one in a brackish tank! I left it there, I figured it went there on its own, if it didn't like it, it could leave. It was there quite a long time. I think they will reproduce just fine inside, it sounds like they have plenty of room.

I only had that one get that big, I don't know how unusual it is. If I were better organized, it would be fun to keep just one in a 5 or 10 gallon tank and remove all its offspring to see how big it would grow.

#9 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 11:20 AM

How high can a 4 inch crayfish jump out of water in a foot deep water with one foot walls around the tanks? I have a tank where they are all getting the urge to go on a walk. They are dissappearing in numbers, I figured it was no way for them to jump that high. Luckily they are local crayfish.

Mike

#10 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:04 PM

I've never seen or heard of crayfish jumping, but they are quite adept at climbing wires from the filter, heater or whatever.

I've had Marmorkrebs reproduce around 2.5" but mine seem to slow their growth a lot after that point.

#11 Guest_schambers_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 03:17 PM

Yeah, they don't jump, but they sure can climb!

#12 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 04:30 PM

I'm really having bad luck on catching Louisana Crayfish. Either the state regs won't let me or the people won't let me on their land to try. The Jackson Purchase is an hours drive from here also, just to make an attempt at catching some driving round trip is over 2 hours.

Does anybody know aplace I could just buy a dozen or 2 dozen from? Or even less if necessary.

#13 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 09:08 PM

Now I've really got a stupid question. Those mug burrows you see where the crayfish dig and stack mud balls like 6 to 9 inches high like bricks is that one breed in particular, or a hibernation type hole for like when its dry or cold. Or do they all do it. Tomorrow I'm trying to get to the Jackson Purchase again maybe even Arkansas if its over 60 degrees on my bike.

sincerely,

Mike

#14 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 09:11 PM

I'm no expert, but from past conversations I gather that it is not just one species, but a general type that builds a chimney... other types do not and stay in the water... others will know more and can give more details.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#15 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 16 March 2010 - 11:10 PM

I forgot those things were called chimneys. I've been looking for them around swampy areas in Logan and Todd County.

Mike

#16 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 11:47 AM

Try Aquabid. Your local pet store may also be able to order some for you. I know there are some P. clarkii farms in KY, but I don't know where. KSU's aquaculture faculty may be able to help there.

Chimneys are built by quite a few different species of crayfish. Specifically they are built by "primary burrowers", which spend most of their time in their burrows but come out to forage on land or water, and "secondary burrowers" which spend their time in open water during wet periods and in burrows during dry periods. P. clarkii is a "tertiary burrower", meaning it can and sometimes does build burrows, but is not typically found in them. Usually they use burrows as shelters while nesting or during droughts; otherwise they spend their time out in the water. So, chimneys are not a good sign of P. clarkii presence.

#17 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:32 PM

NEWT,

I've been dealing with the state of Kentucky all day long making sure I'm not breaking any laws. The one law that most people might not know about but will get a person in real trouble is, if you catch a crayfish you can never sell it, its offsprings are alright to sell but the original caught ones (Brood Stock) you must keep until they die or are released back into the wild. Also before you sell crayfish in Kentucky for eating you have to have a permit from Frankfort, I'll get that permit Number and pass it along to everybody also.

I got registered with the Extension office here and have talked to the fish and Wildlife guys. They are sending me all the state regulations but it looks like a sport fishing license with a siegn endorsement will allow you to catch your brood stock legally. There is a limit to how many you can have in your possession while out in the wild. I don't know it yet but will pass it on when I get it.

sincerely,

Mike

Edited by mikada, 17 March 2010 - 02:35 PM.


#18 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 03:07 PM

Kentucky Regulations:

301 KAR 1:115. Propagation of aquatic organisms.



RELATES TO KRS 150.025, 150.280, 150.290, 150.485

STATUTORY AUTHORITY: KRS 150.025, 150.280, 150.450

NECESSITY, FUNCTION, AND CONFORMITY: KRS 150.280 provides that no person shall propagate or hold wildlife without a permit. This administrative regulation establishes the requirements for obtaining a permit and the requirements that shall be followed by permit holders.



Section 1. Definitions. (1) "Aquatic organisms" means fishes, frogs, crayfish and other aquatic vertebrates and invertebrates.

(2) "Minnows" are defined in 301 KAR 1:130.

(3) "Permit" means a fisheries commercial propagation permit.

(4) "Water supply lake" means a lake that is:

(a) Owned by a municipality or other public water supply entity;

(b) Provides potable water supply for the public;

© Not owned by the state; and

(d) Not managed by the department.



Section 2. Permit Requirements and Application Procedures. (1) Before acquiring or propagating aquatic organisms, a person shall obtain a permit.

(2) A permit applicant shall obtain the permit application form from the department.



Section 3. Acquisition of Brood Stock from Public Waters. (1) A permit holder may obtain from public waters a maximum of 1,500 minnows or crayfish per surface acre of water used for propagation of a particular species.

(2) Each permit holder shall obtain brood stock from public waters no more than one (1) time for both minnows and crayfish.

(3) A conservation officer shall supervise the acquisition of brood stock from public waters.

(4) A permit holder shall use gear authorized by 301 KAR 1:130 to acquire aquatic organisms from public waters.

(a) Upon request at the time of application for a permit, the department may authorize an applicant to use seines larger than ten (10) feet in length, gillnets, and other fish collection gear.

(b) A permit holder shall attach a metal tag, furnished by the department, to authorized seines over ten (10) feet, gillnets, and other fish collection gear showing:

1. The name of the owner;

2. Gear type; and

3. The date the permit expires.

© A permit holder shall use approved fish collection gear in waters designated in the application.



Section 4. Sale of Aquatic Organisms. A permit holder may sell propagated aquatic organisms.



Section 5. The department may issue a permit with no fee to elementary, middle and secondary schools and similar educational institutions if the propagated organisms are to be used for educational purposes.



Section 6. The commissioner may grant approval and issue a permit for paddlefish to be stocked and reared in approved water supply lakes for aquaculture purposes as provided for in 301 KAR 1:110 by completing a permit application and submitting it to the department.

(1) A municipality may allow a second party to rear paddlefish if the commissioner grants approval and issues a permit for paddlefish to be stocked and reared in an approved water supply lake.

(2) If a municipality or other public water supply entity allows a second party to rear paddlefish, a contractual agreement between the two (2) granting permission to use the lake for rearing paddlefish shall be required for the extent of the rearing period. A copy of the contractual agreement shall be submitted to the department before a permit is issued.

(3) Water supply lakes that are currently open to sport fishing shall be required to remain open to sport fishing throughout the length of the rearing of paddlefish.

(4) Paddlefish shall be the only species permitted to be stocked in the approved water supply lakes.

(5) The number of paddlefish stocking events for each rearing period shall be limited to one (1) for each approved water supply lake. Any additional stocking events shall require prior approval by the commissioner.

(6) The permit applicant shall list the name of each water supply lake on the permit application.

(7) A permit shall be obtained for every year of the paddlefish rearing period.

(8) The department shall not:

(a) Enforce the protection of the stocked paddlefish; or

(b) Establish paddlefish sport fish administrative regulations in any of the approved water supply lakes.

(9) Paddlefish that escape in the stream, either above or below the lake, shall not be considered property of the permit holder.

(10) The department shall not be responsible for any corrective actions associated with fish populations in the approved water supply lakes used for aquaculture purposes.

(11) If a municipality rears paddlefish without a contractual agreement with a second party, it shall provide the department with a name of a person responsible for the rearing of the paddlefish in the approved water supply lakes.

(12) A permit holder may use gill nets to take paddlefish only from the approved water supply lakes listed on the permit. A permit holder shall be on site each time gill nets are used in the approved water supply lakes.

(a) The department shall be notified at least one (1) week in advance of any paddlefish harvest from approved water supply lakes, including the random sampling of the stocked paddlefish that require the use of gill nets.

(b) Gill nets shall only be used in the approved water supply lakes from December 1 through March 31.

© Gill nets shall not have a bar mesh size smaller than five (5) inches.

(d) A permit holder shall attach a metal tag provided by the department to each gill net used.

(e) Paddlefish shall be the only species of fish harvested; any other species of fish captured shall be immediately released without undue injury.



Section 7. Inspection of Facilities and Revocation of Permits. (1) A permit holder shall allow a conservation officer to inspect his or her facilities.

(2) The department shall:

(a) Revoke the permit of a person found guilty of violating a statute or administrative regulation pertaining to propagation of aquatic organisms; and

(b) Not renew the permit for a period of up to two (2) years of a person that has been found guilty of violating a statute or administrative regulation pertaining to propagation of aquatic organisms.

(3) Fees paid for revoked permits shall not be refunded.

(4) An individual whose permit has been denied or revoked may request an administrative hearing pursuant to KRS Chapter 13B.



Section 8. Incorporation by Reference. (1) Fisheries Commercial Propagation Permit Application, 2006, Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, is incorporated by reference.

(2) This material may be inspected, copied, or obtained, subject to applicable copyright law, at the Division of Fisheries, Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources, #1 Sportsmanís Lane, Frankfort, Kentucky 40601, Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. (KFWR-F-119; 1 Ky.R. 241; eff. 1-8-75; Am. 4 Ky.R. 569; eff. 8-2-78; 5 Ky.R. 1077; eff. 8-1-79; 21 Ky.R. 489; eff. 9-28-94; 27 Ky.R. 3329; 28 Ky.R. 354; eff. 8-15-2001; 30 Ky.R. 1585; eff. 2-16-04; 32 Ky.R. 306; eff. 10-12-05; 32 Ky.R. 2084; 33 Ky.R. 85; eff. 7-12-06; 34 Ky.R. 2033; eff. 5-2-2008.)

#19 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 03:37 PM

Well I spoke with the wildlife officer and you have to have a Conservation officer go with you to supervise you catching the brood stock and you can only do it once. I think I'm going back to buying the crayfish from a bait shop or a dealer. It de-complicates things because they are not wild animals from the beginning. The extension office didnt have a list of crayfish farmers in Ky so if anybody knows a farm that sells crayfish in Ky please let me know and I'll just buy them from them. I hate to think about what problems can result in the above regulations, and Ky almost has no regulations on crayfish.

sincerely,

Mike

#20 Guest_mikada_*

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 02:06 AM

I found a fish farm in Ky that sells 2 breeds of crayfish by the pound.

sincerely,

Mike




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