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pirate perch culture


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#1 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 09:48 PM

Hello,

I want to find info about raising pirate perch. A while back I read an old document describing how a guy raised pirate perch in tanks. I do not recall the source but hoped someone here could get me back on the cold track. I have already been poking around the old communications here about the subject.

Does anyone here aquaculture pirate perch?

Ed

Edited by Pirateperch, 13 March 2010 - 09:57 PM.


#2 Guest_lozgod_*

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 09:59 PM

If you google Sach's Aquaculture, they do and if you email them, they are pretty good about replying. If no one on here can help I recommend hitting them up.

#3 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 10:11 PM

If you google Sach's Aquaculture, they do and if you email them, they are pretty good about replying. If no one on here can help I recommend hitting them up.


Thank you lozgod,

I think their animals are pond raised since they require live foods. Ponds are beyond my resources. i hope to raise mine on pellets once they are big enough.

#4 Guest_bumpylemon_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 07:11 AM

Thank you lozgod,

I think their animals are pond raised since they require live foods. Ponds are beyond my resources. i hope to raise mine on pellets once they are big enough.

i was a little confused by this...if they are raised in ponds....which i dont think Sachs does that, then they would still be able to live in a tank. i have some pirate perch. they eat bloodworms. i havent ever seen them eat any dried food. any reason you want to have them eat pellets? plus im my observations they are very shy and do not "run to the food". they are more active at night when the lights are out. welcome to the forum...where are you from?

#5 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 09:12 AM

bumpylemon,

Thanks for welcome. I am from the Kingdom of Calloway (a.k.a Calloway County in Missouri).

I have had a pirate perch that would consume pellets but it did not appear to use its eyes to locate food. It did learn to come to the top of the tank when I disturbed the water with my fingers. I want the pirate perch to eat pellets because they are readily avaible and contain more reliable nutrients than many of the frozen foods I can get, including bloodworms. During the spring, summer and fall I can culture water fleas in tanks under trees in the pasture so long as I can keep livestock from sucking tanks dry. It is amazing how well water fleas can thrive in water infused with pasture related slober. The water fleas are not available when I need them most, during winter as I try to fatten up my fish to breed. I will also used bits of cut-up fishing worms as pirate perch like to pound them down.

A fellow called Uland has posted what I understand to indicate his pirate perch did consume pellets so I think I can get mine to do the same.

#6 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 12:32 PM

Hello and welcome, Ed! Is this what you're looking for? http://www.nanfa.org...rateperch.shtml

#7 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 01:01 PM

Hello and welcome, Ed! Is this what you're looking for? http://www.nanfa.org...rateperch.shtml


Thanks Newt,

This will be helpful, althought article I recall involved rearing the young to adulthood and getting offspring from them. My next step will be to prepare tanks with places to deposit eggs. As I understand it, they can be spawned indoors when temperatures is in the middle to upper 60's. Cooler temperatures are beyond my abilities at this time. Then I need to get about 20 fish getting ready to spawn.

#8 Guest_wargreen_*

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 10:53 PM

bumpylemon,

Thanks for welcome. I am from the Kingdom of Calloway (a.k.a Calloway County in Missouri).

I have had a pirate perch that would consume pellets but it did not appear to use its eyes to locate food. It did learn to come to the top of the tank when I disturbed the water with my fingers. I want the pirate perch to eat pellets because they are readily avaible and contain more reliable nutrients than many of the frozen foods I can get, including bloodworms. During the spring, summer and fall I can culture water fleas in tanks under trees in the pasture so long as I can keep livestock from sucking tanks dry. It is amazing how well water fleas can thrive in water infused with pasture related slober. The water fleas are not available when I need them most, during winter as I try to fatten up my fish to breed. I will also used bits of cut-up fishing worms as pirate perch like to pound them down.

A fellow called Uland has posted what I understand to indicate his pirate perch did consume pellets so I think I can get mine to do the same.



Pirateperch its nice to welcome a fellow Missourian to Nanfa, I know they have Pirateperch down in the boothill if you wanted to dipnet them out of their natural habitat. Joe.

#9 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:37 AM

A dipnet expedition it will be to the bootheel is likely to be worthwhile. I am going down this week, possibly Wednesday.

Edited by centrarchid, 15 March 2010 - 10:35 AM.


#10 Guest_wargreen_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 01:54 PM

Yeah a dipnetting expedition would be awesome, I wish I could get away from work....Ive been putting in 48- 60 hrs a week mandatory overtime; right now is pretty hectic. I read someplace that thought there is two subspecies of Pirate perch, I dont know whats become of that though.

#11 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:37 PM

Welcome Pirate Perch, Uland here reporting for duty :-)

I'm afraid I am unfamiliar with the article you're referring to but if you should have specific questions, I will try and answer them.
I have kept Pirate perch of all sizes however I have not spawned them.
My pirate perch do (did) eat sinking shrimp pellets with enthusiasm but only after I "trained" them to eat frozen sinking foods.

#12 Guest_Newt_*

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 02:51 PM

Yeah a dipnetting expedition would be awesome, I wish I could get away from work....Ive been putting in 48- 60 hrs a week mandatory overtime; right now is pretty hectic. I read someplace that thought there is two subspecies of Pirate perch, I dont know whats become of that though.


There are two described subspecies: Aphredoderus sayanus sayanus along the Atlantic slope, and A. s. gibbosus in the Mississippi valley, Great Lakes, and western Gulf Coastal Plain. Populations in the central/east Gulf Coastal Plain region and Florida are considered intergrades.

From Boltz, Jeffery M. and Jay R. Stauffer, Jr. 1993. Systematics of Aphredoderus sayanus (Teleostei: Aphredoderidae). Copeia 1993:81-93:

Overview.-The populations of A. sayanus could be divided into three morphological groups: (1) north- and mid-Atlantic Slope; (2) southern Atlantic Slope and eastern Gulf Slope; and(3) western Gulf Slope, Great Lakes, and Mississippi Valley populations. Populations from the north- and mid-Atlantic Slope usually could be identified by having three anal-fin spines, four dorsal-fin spines, 11 pectoral-fin rays, and 36-47 (usually <42) lateral-line scales. Populations from the western Gulf Slope, Great Lakes, and Mississippi Valley were characterized by usually
having two anal-fin spines, three dorsal-fin spines, 12 pectoral-fin rays, and 42-56 (usually >45) lateral-line scales. In addition, specimens from the north- and mid-Atlantic Slope had a lateral pigment stripe, whereas those from the Mississippi Valley and Gulf Slope did not. The southern Atlantic Slope and eastern Gulf Slope populations were intermediate; they usually had two or three anal-fin spines, three dorsal-fin spines, 11 or 12 pectoral-fin spines, and 37-56 (usually 43-48) lateral-line scales.



#13 Guest_wargreen_*

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 07:08 AM

Thanks Newt, I unfortunately couldnt find the originall articl,e and didnt want to post info. thats untrue. I dont believe the originall article even talked about intergrades....wow, very interesting.

#14 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 06:52 PM

Thanks Wargreen, Newt and Uland.

I captured about 2 dozen pirate perch on 17 March 2010 from the Black River drainage using a dipnet. Based on where they were collected, the pirate perch are of the subspecies Aphredoderus sayanus gibbosus. They are notably different from pirate perch I have seen in South Carolina. Based on dipnet hawls, males were in groups and females were scattered about. The best males and females were cherry picked (about 1 dozen in total) while the rest were returned. The have been acclimating to conditions of my basement for the last several days. Four males will be stocked into four 10 gallon aquariums as shown below.
Attached File  PIRATE PERCH 2010 MARCH 20 007.jpg   113.86KB   2 downloads

Each tank has a sponge filter.
Attached File  PIRATE PERCH 2010 MARCH 20.jpg   109.27KB   0 downloads

And a brick with a mass of 100% polyester fiber serving as nest site.
Attached File  PIRATE PERCH 2010 MARCH 20 002.jpg   88.58KB   0 downloads


To monitor tanks I have a Sony Digital camcorder.
Attached File  PIRATE PERCH 2010 MARCH 20 006.jpg   98.9KB   0 downloads


The camcorder is positioned to see all tanks / nest sites at same time.
Attached File  PIRATE PERCH 2010 MARCH 20 005.jpg   115.1KB   0 downloads

#15 Guest_BTDarters_*

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 03:53 PM

The Summer 2007 issue of American Currents also has an article about breeding Pirate Perch. The issue volume is Volume 33, No. 3, Summer (Aug. 2007). I believe you could contact Tom Watson to get a reprint. His email is onefish2fish@comcast.net.

Brian

#16 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 23 March 2010 - 11:21 AM

Here is an image of Pirateperch's (Ed's) pirate perch eggs. They are from a female that blew her eggs during acclimation. They are not fertile (no male present) despite some going through some early cell divsions. Average egg diameter 1.60 mm.




Attached File  PIRATE PERCH EGGS UNFERT 2.0x 2010 March 23 1100 001.jpg   195.38KB   0 downloads

#17 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 07:04 PM

I have at least one spawn produced. At least some eggs appear fungused.


I transferred a nice looking female into a tank with a smaller active male and boy did he fire up! He is trembling and pushing his nose in the fibers. Between bouts of this he goes to female and does all sorts of lateral displays at he before swimming back to fiber mass. Spawning is immiment!!!!

#18 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 07:14 AM

Overnight one pirate perch spawn was produced. I removed adults and added a power filter to increase water flow over egg cluster. Looks like a over a hundred eggs.

Two more females appear laden with eggs. Maybe one or more will go tonight or during day.

#19 Guest_jase_*

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 09:42 AM

Congrats on the success! Hope the eggs make it to hatch.

I'm curious what your motivation is in breeding these? You're obviously putting a lot of effort into it, and your initial posts make it sound like you're hoping to raise a large number of them. Is this an academic project, trying to raise them to sell, or just curiosity?

#20 Guest_Pirateperch_*

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 10:25 AM

Eggs will be looked at this weekend to determine how they are developing.

Effort minimal, just re-tasking existing resources normally used for cichlids. Also cheaper in respect to heating bill. This project a challenge. Large number considered to be fifty at this time. Next year will be the investment of resources when contructing a 100+ gallon tank fo project.


Prefer indoor reared / acclimated fish for next year so I can breed fish in large groups to gain insight in how they act naturally during the breeding season. Low numbers I have now prevents normal social interactions that I want to see. Male versus male interactions are of particular interest.

I am in Missouri, pirate perch not on approved species list for aquaculture / sale, or even removal from state.

Ultimately I want to develop information needed to effectively investigate their cave dwelling kin. May provide cave biologist some more educated gueses as they tramp through cave streams trying to figure out what is going on there.




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