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Hippocampus zosterae


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#61 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 10:09 AM

I hate having to report this to you guys, but I did a survey and I think the majority of the seahorses are either master, master hiders, or dead. Who knows why. There are copepods (their natural food) crawling all over the place, so I don't think it was starvation.

The paper http://www.int-res.c...47/m047p031.pdf said, "Livingston (1984) and preliminary investigations in a Tampa Bay seagrass bed (Tipton 1987) have shown that the gulf pipefish Syngnathus scovelli Evermann & Kendall and the dwarf seahorse Hippocampus zosterae Jordan & Gilbert feed during the daytime and are consumers of large numbers of harpacticoids."

That's what I have, harpacticoid copepods. You can see how many there are of them in this video:
http://youtu.be/2zbgklKLxcg

So I'm not sure what happened. Theoretically I put seahorses into a tank filled with thousands of their natural prey. They should be eating well and breeding and happy. But they're not. I see only very few now. Maybe they stressed out from being wild caught and acclimating to the new tank? My fiance assures me that seahorses are just stupid and difficult and nobody can breed them, which makes me feel better. But that doesn't explain why it's not working. The mandarinfish spawned this past week for the first time, by the way, so theoretically this is a copepod rich environment. *sighs* I just don't understand why the seahorses aren't thriving. There are thousands of their natural prey in there for them to eat. Eat, you stupid seahorses. Eat.

Edited by EricaWieser, 02 March 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#62 Guest_dac343_*

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 04:39 PM

Lot of things can go wrong with seahorses.....Hydroids could be in the tank, or other critters that have harmed them. Even though you have tons of food in there they may have still not gotten enough nourishment. These guys do not like leaving their posts, if the food doesn't come by them they won't chase it down (they don't have the speed to do so either) and surprisingly they need a lot of food throughout the day . Its usually why most people recommend smaller species only tanks to ensure that the food is concentrated for them. I've had 10 become well over a 100 in just a five gallon hex. They also could have had a parasite load that stress from shipping did no favors for them.

H. zosterae is a tough little critter to crack, don't give up on them yet.

#63 Guest_gerald_*

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

"Harpacticoid" is a big order, with 463 genera and about 3,000 species; according to Wikipedia. So maybe your particular "Harp" bloom is not as suitable as you think. IME any critter (or alga) that is a preferred food source has to be cultured separately. The plankton species that predominate long-term in a tank with fish are the species they dont eat. But yes, like dac says, lots of other things besides food could have gone wrong too. I hope you figure it out. Great news on the mandarins!

#64 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:33 AM

A qt/prophylaxis protocol is very important with wc Seahorses, more so than most other fish. I've been handling large #s of wildcaught aquatic life, both fw and sw for over 30 years. While there's no way to determine exactly what happened/would have helped, I consider not qt'ing Seahorses like gambling at a casino. You can't know the outcome of an individual wager beforehand, but you can bet you life that over the long term the house will win. And of course you will lose.

Edited by Subrosa, 03 March 2013 - 01:41 AM.


#65 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:40 PM

A qt/prophylaxis protocol is very important with wc Seahorses, more so than most other fish. I've been handling large #s of wildcaught aquatic life, both fw and sw for over 30 years. While there's no way to determine exactly what happened/would have helped, I consider not qt'ing Seahorses like gambling at a casino. You can't know the outcome of an individual wager beforehand, but you can bet you life that over the long term the house will win. And of course you will lose.

What do you mean by quarantining? The only other fish in the tank they went into were two mandarinfish.

#66 Guest_dac343_*

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:22 PM

Quarantining might have helped you rule out some things, i.e not eating, parasites etc plus it would have given you a chance to catch and treat any illness quickly. If I understand correctly you don't plan on introducing any more seahorses to the tank correct? The other concern would have been that the wc seahorse have something in them or on them that could effect your mandarinfish and/or spawn.

#67 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

It's more likely not the lack of qt strictly speaking, but the lack of prophylaxis that is almost certainly at least part of the problem. Qt is more to avoid the introduction of external parasites. Seahorses from the wild should be treated proactively for internal parasites. http://forum.seahors...95&hl=deworming You'll need to work with 2 day old brine shrimp instead of adults. It's not quick, it's not easy, and it will illustrate why vendors charge as much as they do for tank raised seahorses.

Edited by Subrosa, 03 March 2013 - 02:38 PM.


#68 Guest_gunner48_*

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:24 PM

This group might have some information that would be helpful. The forum is not that active but they do have some useful information for anyone trying their luck with breeding or keeping Marine Fish. They also offer some links to vendors.

Marine Breeder.org
http://www.marinebre...455a6d61b12fc55

#69 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:40 PM

So, here's my problem. There's still one alive.

I'd be fine with completely failing at this. That would mean that my setup was wrong or my food was wrong or something was terribly off and all of them died. But the thing is, they're not all dead. This one little dude (or dudette) is totally cool here, chilling. He/she eats microworms upon command, dutifully waiting until the once a day or so when I feed him/her. This is how it was supposed to work. Why didn't it work with the other ones? I gotta say, the internal parasite thing is looking like an attractive explanation. I can't help but wonder if, let's say I give the tank like a month to cool off from whatever internal parasite might possibly have wiped out the previous population, then I order a new batch from a different seller, it might work out this time.

Long story short I bought 50 more for $160. They should be here tomorrow or the day after. My one little guy/girl who's just chilling is going to have some friends pretty soon. Shh, don't tell my fiance. lol, we'll see how much attention he pays to the tank XD (I'm just kidding; I used fish money to buy these fish. Hobbies are less offensive to spouses when they pay for themselves, no?)

If anybody has any suggestions for your favorite method to treat for internal parasites, I'm listening.

Edited by EricaWieser, 25 March 2013 - 10:03 PM.


#70 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

Attempt #2 at breeding seahorses!


woo. This batch is getting microworms twice a day if not more. Stupid seahorses.

By the way three were dead on arrival and although I paid for 50 they sent between 40 and 45. I counted several times and always got between those numbers. It's probably the worst experience I've ever had buying fish online. I specifically asked them not to require signature upon delivery, seeing as how FedEx delivers from 9 am to 5 pm and I am at work for more than those hours every day. The seller, nadyamermaid, agreed not to require signature upon delivery. Then I get home yesterday and there's a sticker on my door saying that FedEx tried to deliver my package. Why wasn't I home? They would try again tomorrow. My response: !#@$@!#!. Also I'm going to give the seller negative feedback, the first time I've ever done that ever. Just thought I'd let you all know.

#71 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:04 PM

It is most likely that the one you have left is the most tolerant of being parasitised. In any case you can't starve out a parasite in a tank which contains its host species. You want to hatch out brine shrimp and gutload them with the medicine.

DEWORMING INSTRUCTIONS

FENBENDAZOLE (granules) Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: Fenbendazole
Indication: worms and other internal parasites
Brand Names: Panacur, Safe-Guard
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Fenbendazole to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
• Purchase Fenbendazole granules available as 1gm packets.
• Thoroughly mix a single 1gm packet (~1/4tsp) into one gallon (~4 liters) of water. Please note that the granules will not completely dissolve.
• This mixture will produce 222mg of Fenbendazole per gallon of water.
• Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
• Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
• Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

FENBENDAZOLE (liquid) Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: 10% Fenbendazole
Indication: worms and other internal parasites
Brand Names: Panacur, Safe-Guard
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Fenbendazole to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
• Add ~250mg (2ml or ~1/2 tsp) of the Fenbendazole mixture to one gallon (~4 liters) of water and mix thoroughly.
• Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
• Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
• Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

METRONIDAZOLE Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: Metronidalzole
Indication: flagellates and other internal parasites
Brand Names: Metro+, Metro-Pro, Metronidazole, Metro-MS, Flagyl
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Metronidazole to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
• If using tablets, crush one tablet into a fine powder. If using powder, dose 1/4tsp.
• Add the Metronidazole to one gallon (~4 liters) of water and mix thoroughly.
• Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
• Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
• Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

PRAZIQUANTEL Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: Praziquantel
Indication: worms and other internal parasites
Brand Names: PraziPro, Praz-Tastic, Praziquantel
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Praziquantel to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
• Add 10ml (~2tsp) of Praziquantel to one gallon (~4 liters) of water and mix thoroughly.
• Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
• Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
• Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

You'll want to sub in day old shrimp for adults

#72 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:10 PM

These seem to require adult brine shrimp. I'll look into if any of the local stores have any for sale, but none of the ones I can think of do. I've tried growing the egg cysts into adults several times in the past and they never make it to adulthood.

#73 Guest_Subrosa_*

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:06 AM

You'll want to sub in younger shrimp, but the process is the same. You will have to wait at least 24 hrs until the nauplii use up their yolk sac and start feeding before you can gutload.

Edited by Subrosa, 29 March 2013 - 07:07 AM.


#74 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:26 PM

There is a big difference between these seahorses and the last batch. Unlike the previous seahorses, these ones are making the head snap movement that I think means they're eating. yay :)

Here are the adventures of one seahorse in particular, and a still image of another:

Posted Image

#75 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 10:11 AM

I fed them just now and they are definitely responding to microworms. I'm so glad this batch is eating.

#76 Guest_gzeiger_*

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

That is SO cute!

#77 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 07:29 PM

That is SO cute!

Thank you :) I have fun editing that video. One of the comments on another website was that the seahorse is most likely a female. That makes me think that maybe it was looking around for its male. I have read that hippocampus zosterae tend to be monogamous, with the females seeking out their males every day, going to his territory and showing him some affection.

#78 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:54 PM

By the way three were dead on arrival and although I paid for 50 they sent between 40 and 45. I counted several times and always got between those numbers. It's probably the worst experience I've ever had buying fish online. I specifically asked them not to require signature upon delivery, seeing as how FedEx delivers from 9 am to 5 pm and I am at work for more than those hours every day. The seller, nadyamermaid, agreed not to require signature upon delivery. Then I get home yesterday and there's a sticker on my door saying that FedEx tried to deliver my package. Why wasn't I home? They would try again tomorrow. My response: !#@$@!#!. Also I'm going to give the seller negative feedback, the first time I've ever done that ever. Just thought I'd let you all know.

I would like to retract my negative review of this vendor. After a week of no contact the seller, nadyamermaid, spontaneously offered to refund me the cost of 10 seahorses (the dead ones and the ones that weren't in the bag). I replied by saying that I'm not going to blame them for the ones that arrived dead (that's FedEx's fault), and that a refund for the ones I paid for but weren't in the bag would be nice, thank you. So I'd like to make it clear that this seller's customer service is good and that people should not be afraid to order seahorses from them. Also, all of the seahorses that arrived alive have stayed that way, so this is so far good, healthy stock.

Edited by EricaWieser, 01 April 2013 - 04:54 PM.


#79 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:37 AM

The good news or the bad news?
The good news first: Before last night, like 95% of the seahorses were alive, thriving, and many showed signs of pregnancy. They readily ate the microworms, which I added three to four times a day.
The bad news: Last night, after trying three different pet stores for fenbendazole (the recommended anti-hydroid medication; the branch this batch of seahorses came in on was covered in hydroids and I think it killed one or two of them) and a different anti-invertebrate, I dosed the 75 gallon tank with a little bit less than five grams of levamisole hydrochloride. This is the recommended dose I saw proscribed online. Immediately upon adding it, one seahorse had a seizure. This morning, 100% of the visible seahorses are dead.

I am so, incredibly sick of this. I do not like saltwater. If the mandarinfish are dead I am breaking down this tank and breeding orangespotted sunfish or something freshwater.

#80 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 11:01 AM

Oh, by the way, the hydroids? Still alive.

I was at the tank just now searching and I see the male mandarinfish and he is fine. I can't find the female but that's how it usually goes (she is an inch long in a 75 gallon heavily planted tank). If it turns out she's dead, I'll sell the male and switch to sunfish. I wanted this to be a sunfish tank anyway, but I was so tempted to see if I could breed mandarinfish. But seriously, seahorses, why are you so fragile? I read all this info on how you are 'true fish' and even a scale-less fish like the mandarinfish survived the recommended dose. The HYDROIDS survived the recommended dose. And all the little seahorses died. I saw, like, one still alive. :( Seahorses are so stupid. :(

Edited by EricaWieser, 14 April 2013 - 11:04 AM.





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