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Floridichthys carpio, Gambusia rhizophorae in aquaria


15 replies to this topic

#1 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 18 November 2018 - 03:58 PM

Hi all,

  Does anyone have experience keeping and/or breeding the gold-spotted killifish, Floridichthys carpio, or the mangrove gambusia, Gambusia rhizophorae? I am taking a collecting trip to Florida in February and these two species are on my potential wish list. Are Floridichthys as pugnacious and territorial as sheepshead minnows? Will they readily spawn in mops? Are mangrove gambusias just as hardy (and nippy) as their inland cousins?

 

  I haven't tried keeping any saltwater tanks in almost 20 years... but these attractive little Florida species have got me thinking I should try again.

 

Cheers,

Eric


-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY

#2 lilyea

lilyea
  • NANFA Member
  • Peace River Watershed, Central Florida, USA

Posted 18 November 2018 - 09:28 PM

Eric,

 

I have collected and bred F. grandis and L. parva in full saltwater using spawning mops and have also collected and kept C. variegatus.  I do not have any experience with G. rhizophorae and I have found carpio sensitive to transport.  Good luck with your efforts - I will be interested to hear about your successes!

 

Thanks,
Bruce



#3 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 19 November 2018 - 07:05 PM

Bob Goldstein kept and bred Floridicthys some years ago; I think he had both species.  They were at least as pugnacious and territorial as Cyprinodon, if not more so.  Also they spent a long time scooting around on their bellies before they started swimming up off the bottom.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#4 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 21 November 2018 - 11:15 PM

Thanks for both of your responses! Bruce - how sensitive to transport are they? Any tips for keeping some happy for a long drive home?

Gerald - Did he write any accounts of his breeding experience? I belatedly thought to check the old AC archives, and there is one article on breeding them, but it doesn't mention their temperament.
-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY

#5 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 25 November 2018 - 12:39 PM

In American Aquarium Fishes Goldstein has a few lines on F. polyommus:  They occur in large single-species schools where all fish are the same size.  "Roving schools presumably feed on young mollies, gobies, other inshore fishes, young of their own species ..."  "Floridichthys are voracious on flakes, frozen brine shrimp, and meat."  "The fry ... resemble tiny sand-colored amphipods. They do not ascend into the water column for some weeks."    Under F. carpio he just describes the fish and its habitat; no breeding notes, but I recall him saying the two species are essentially the same behavior-wise and care-wise.   He kept them both in 35 ppt seawater.  I took care of his tanks when he was away.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#6 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 03 December 2018 - 12:24 PM

Thanks for the reply, Gerald. They seem like they should be easy to raise, although I am surprised at how carnivorous they sound. I would have expected them to graze on a lot of algae in the wild. I'll keep my fingers crossed that I can successfully collect some and transport them home this February.


-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY

#7 gerald

gerald
  • Global Moderator
  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 03 December 2018 - 05:01 PM

You may be right about their natural diet being more herbivorous.  Lots of naturally herbivorous & omnivorous fish show a definite preference for meat in captivity.  RJG was guessing based on seeing the size classes conspicuously segregated.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#8 lilyea

lilyea
  • NANFA Member
  • Peace River Watershed, Central Florida, USA

Posted 03 December 2018 - 11:08 PM

Thanks for both of your responses! Bruce - how sensitive to transport are they? Any tips for keeping some happy for a long drive home?

Gerald - Did he write any accounts of his breeding experience? I belatedly thought to check the old AC archives, and there is one article on breeding them, but it doesn't mention their temperament.

 

Eric - I apologize for the delayed response.  I have never transported F. carpio over significant distance (I'm only an hour from the coast).  I had an experience where I was seining with a group along the grass flats and when we sorted the fish from the buckets when we got back to the vehicles we had lost all of the carpio and did not had any other losses.  To provide a direct response to your question, I expect that if you treat them like you would any other sensitive fish (this may include actions such as aeration, limited stocking, dark container, floating mops, water changes, no temperature extremes, possible mild sedative, etc.) then you should be able to transport them in a vehicle.  Good luck!



#9 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 05 December 2018 - 12:09 PM

Bruce,

  That is an alarming loss! I have had similar experiences in some fresh waters of Florida, and I think oxygen deprivation and perhaps relatively high temperatures may have played a role. I will be sure to take some of your advice into account when collecting. I don't have any experience with using sedatives for keeping fish calm during transport - do you?

 

Cheers,

Eric


-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY

#10 Matt DeLaVega

Matt DeLaVega
  • Forum Staff
  • Ohio

Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:47 PM

Bag Buddies. I really like them. Clove oil is the sedative in them I believe, and some may not agree on the efficacy of clove oil, but I am a believer. https://www.ebay.com...0-/181858136333


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#11 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 06 December 2018 - 04:34 PM

I don't have a lot of experience with bag buddies. I only used them once, the first time I ever shipped fish (I was only 13 years old...), and I made so many mistakes in that process I can't be sure they did any help. Do you use bag buddies while collecting, or only for shipping? I have used clove oil several times for anesthetizing fish for fin clipping, but never as a long-term sedative. My trip will last nearly a month including transit to and from Florida, and due to the logistics of all the activities planned for the trip and the fact the Gambusia are at the very southernmost end of Florida, unfortunately I anticipate having to start the collecting process for them almost 2 weeks before I would be able to get the fish into a tank at home... something I didn't realize until just now. I'm hoping I can find a site for Floridichthys (and everything else I'm hoping to collect) farther north and later in the trip, reducing total transit time. I guess for the sake of the Gambusia, I might have to skip out on collecting those this time around.

 

Matt - I'd be very interested to hear more about your use of bag buddies in fish transport!


-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY

#12 Matt DeLaVega

Matt DeLaVega
  • Forum Staff
  • Ohio

Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:02 PM

Eric, I was shipping fish quite a bit for a while. I used bag buddies for several months then ran out. I saw a difference right away. If you are not shipping fish professionally, and developing a perfect least cost system, I would suggest using them. I feel like they give you an edge. I did also use them for transport, and at the time I had killed several bunches of redside dace. These were from a spring creek and seemed to be very sensitive. I got them home fine, but tail rot of some sort followed shortly after. I used Bag Buddies on a later trip, a year or so later, and had success. Kept them alive for a long time. May have had as much to do with time of year, or better handling and husbandry, but I believe they work. 


The member formerly known as Skipjack


#13 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:50 AM

Thanks for the observations Matt. Sounds like you've seen significant differences between using/not using the bag buddies. How long were the fish in transit when you used the bag buddies? I had planned on using some pre-cycled sponge filters in my transport coolers, since they would be traveling for up to a week and a half, but my understanding is that the meth blue in bag buddies would kill the bacteria and make the filters pointless.


-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY

#14 lilyea

lilyea
  • NANFA Member
  • Peace River Watershed, Central Florida, USA

Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:19 PM

Eric - based on the time and manner that you are attempting to relocate these fish, you may want to set up a mobile quarantine tank in a cooler (or similar container) rather than putting the fish in plastic bags for transfer.  If so, then this may alter your plan on how to care for the fish.



#15 gerald

gerald
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  • Wake Forest, North Carolina

Posted 07 December 2018 - 10:02 PM

Agree with Bruce.  I think pre-cycled sponge filters and yarn mops in a big cooler will have far more benefit than the bag buddies.


Gerald Pottern
-----------------------
Hangin' on the Neuse
"Taxonomy is the diaper used to organize the mess of evolution into discrete packages" - M.Sandel


#16 Hydrophilus

Hydrophilus
  • NANFA Member
  • Syracuse, NY

Posted 10 December 2018 - 11:13 AM

Thanks for the considerations. My trunk will be dedicated to several small coolers, which I had mostly planned on filling with water and using small sponge filters/air stones, rather than transporting fish in bags. The only exception would be for small species that live in still water like Elassoma and Heterandria, which would be going into breather bags to minimize sloshing during transport. One of the coolers would be for bagged fish.


-Eric C. Maxwell
DEC Rare Fish Unit, Watertown, NY



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