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New dam on the Colorado River


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#1 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 01:22 PM

http://news.yahoo.co...ado_river_water

Apparently there will be a new reservoir created on the lower Colorado River to make sure no water reaches the Sea of Cortez -- does this mean the lower Colorado is offically dead as far as native fish are concerned?

#2 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 02:06 PM

Wow.

"Another agreement lets the Las Vegas-based Southern Nevada Water Authority build a reservoir just north of the U.S. border in California to capture excess water that would otherwise flow into Mexico."

Huh? Because Mexicans need water less than all of the fountains and golf courses in Las Vegas/Southern California?

That's just wrong on so many levels...

#3 Guest_Seedy_*

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:08 PM

Dam.

...no, wait...I mean damn.

#4 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 04:12 PM

Excess water? I love that whole notion. Excess/useless water flows beyond cities or areas that NEED it? Like it is wasted if it goes all the way downstream to the ocean. I really don't see how that could make it through all the permitting processes Dirk Kempthorn's blessing or not.

#5 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 06:54 PM

Aw, what are you guys grousing about? Dams create reservoirs wherein LMB can be stocked. Fun for the whole family!

#6 Guest_tricolor_*

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 06:00 AM

What would the Mexican Gov't say about this? What would happen to the Sea of Cortez?

#7 Guest_Mysteryman_*

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 09:27 AM

Could this be considered an act of war?

Boy, politicians sure are smart, aren't they? To think how we were wasting all that perfectly good water... it's a good thing they came up with this great plan to save it all! Once again it'll be safe to build huge megalopolises in otherwise uninhabitable areas. What could possibly go wrong with great planning like this? As a big bonus, we also won't have any more illegals swimming upstream into our country. Yay!

What would happen to the Sea of Cortez? Probably nothing special. It might get a little bit hotter and a little bit saltier, but not significantly so, and it'll lose a big influx of nutrients, but that might actually be a good thing. It's not like the Red Sea, bottlenecked at both ends.

Okay, all silliness aside, I didn't see where it said it would completely stop the river's flow into mexico, and I'd frankly be darned impressed if they could even do it if they tried.

326000 gallons is only enough for two houses per year in that area? Do any of you guys use 163,000 gallons per year in your homes? I sure don't.

Hey! I just thought of something. If this scheme works, we could try damming up the Chattahoochie next to solve our own drought problem. Sorry, Florida.

#8 Guest_mzokan_*

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 10:32 AM

Okay, all silliness aside, I didn't see where it said it would completely stop the river's flow into mexico, and I'd frankly be darned impressed if they could even do it if they tried.


The Colorado already frequently dries up before it reaches the sea, so it wouldn't be a great feat for them to stop it entirely. However, the new reservoir if built, will impound what is left of riverine habitats down there.

The Colorado Delta was at one time an important system of freshwater and brackish marshes, but apparently it was a "waste" of water: http://en.wikipedia....ado_River_Delta

#9 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 02:03 AM

i lived in AZ a few years back and it was obscence. i can't remember now if Phoenix got it's water from the Colorado. i do remember that it came in a big canal. water waste there was horrendous--wanton destruction. there were fountains all over the place. in fact, the tallest fountain in the world at the time was in this horrible urban-sprawly town right outsie of Phoenix. there were neighborhood ordinances in Phoenix that required residents to maintain green watered lawns year-round. Tucson was a little bit better. you didn't see too many watered lawns there and they had some infomation around town about water conservation.

we are a great example of a civilization eating itself from the inside out, just like the ancient Egyptians, the Mayans, the Soviets and the Romans did. we don't need any foreign enemy to attack us because we are pillaging and wrecking all of our own natural wealth. down in the suburbs around Chicago they are still putting up flimsy cardboard McMansions, by thousands of acres at a time, on the richest topsoil in the world.

if our goal was to write a recipe for our own self-destruction, i think we have it nailed.

#10 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 02:41 AM

i lived in AZ a few years back and it was obscence. i can't remember now if Phoenix got it's water from the Colorado. i do remember that it came in a big canal.


I was in Scotsdale (Suburb of Pheonix?) in 2005 for an ASCE class on biotechnical riverbank stabilization techniques. I remember that the talk of "city in the desert" during a presentation by city officials. There was enough water for many many many more people, comes from snow runoff in the mountains, fairly nearby as I remember. I may be wrong, but that is what I walked away with. We were standing in a several "flood plain" areas during a couple field excursions but really it all looked like desert to me. Like so many places, southern california for example, its all about storage (considering only water supply). Enough water passes therough the Delta to satisfy LOTS or folk, its just not economically feasible to build large enough reservoirs either underground or above, down there (environmental considerations aside). Things WILL reach a point when environmental considerations are aside, in my humble opinion. FYI, i don't agree with this scenario.

#11 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 05:33 AM

Enough water passes therough the Delta to satisfy LOTS or folk, its just not economically feasible to build large enough reservoirs either underground or above, down there (environmental considerations aside). Things WILL reach a point when environmental considerations are aside, in my humble opinion. FYI, i don't agree with this scenario.


One thing that politicians seem to forget is that as climates change (both naturally and human-mediated) the amount of snowpack changes. Current models (under observed rates) call for much less snow in the SW. Bad news if you're a skier -- or a fish. What happens when you build cities for millions of people in a desert, then the amount of water that you'd budgeted for disappears...?

#12 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 09:25 AM

i looked a little bit to refresh my memory. the Central Arizona Project supplies Phoenix and other places in AZ with Colorado River water:

http://en.wikipedia....roject_Aqueduct

Fountain Hills was the place with the hideous founntain:

http://www.city-data...v/picv15149.php

#13 Guest_arnoldi_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 02:08 PM

If I am not mistaken the vast majority of Colorado river water goes to agriculture, not cities and suburbs.

#14 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 03:30 PM

If I am not mistaken the vast majority of Colorado river water goes to agriculture, not cities and suburbs.


i think that is correct. i remember alfalfa being especially significant. when i lived out there they were planting nut (pecan i think?) farms, and those were also extremely water intensive.

i think that all the water use out there has hitorically conformed to a similar mindset.

i worked for a couple of summers on the San Pedro River. that is a cool spot, but it was depressing. you could literallly see the river drying up one year to the next. most of the issue there was groundwater pumping to serve the town of Sierra Vista.

#15 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:47 AM

One thing that politicians seem to forget is that as climates change (both naturally and human-mediated) the amount of snowpack changes. Current models (under observed rates) call for much less snow in the SW. Bad news if you're a skier -- or a fish. What happens when you build cities for millions of people in a desert, then the amount of water that you'd budgeted for disappears...?


They haven't forgotten, this has been a major factor incluencing hydrologic modleing in CA for years and years. the forcasts for river flows impacting floods, drinking (salinity), agriculture, environmental, etc. are largely dependent on snowpack data developed annually. And they have seen a decreasing snow pack in recent years, as well as earlier and larger runoff flows.

#16 Guest_arnoldi_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 10:21 AM

Anyone who lives west of the Mississippi should real "Cadillac Desert" by Marc Reisner. Its a very good overview of the disastrous US water policy in the western states.

#17 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 10:50 AM

Anyone who lives west of the Mississippi should real "Cadillac Desert" by Marc Reisner. Its a very good overview of the disastrous US water policy in the western states.


wait until they start looking at the great lakes with hungry pipelines...

#18 Guest_ckraft_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 03:48 PM

The people in Oregon get all excited when we tell them they are wasting water in the Columbia by letting it go to sea and they should send it to us.

#19 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 04:42 PM

wait until they start looking at the great lakes with hungry pipelines...


The great lakes states have already signed an agreement not to ship or pipe water to other states for their consumption. There levels are dropping enough as it is already. There is a huge ocean on your doorsteps, desalinization surely has to be cheaper than transportation over 3000 miles.

#20 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 08:22 PM

Dams kick ass!



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