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Does anyone have Bluehead Shiner (Pteronotropis hubbsi


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#1 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 02:57 AM

I was looking at this page http://www.hsu.edu/c...nt.aspx?id=2367
and saw the photo of the Bluehead Shiner (Pteronotropis hubbsi)...Thats a pretty cool looking fish...do all of them look like that in the photo? Or only the males? Anyone has these in their tanks?

#2 Guest_nativecajun_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 09:54 AM

I think in general the photos you see are top breeding males that books show.

#3 Guest_smbass_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 12:03 PM

I have never caught these but from my understanding the females look nothing like the males, just a black stripe down their side and thats about it. I also don't think they have the lagre fins that the males have. Someone who has or has seen these things needs to chime in here to validate my claim though.

#4 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:29 PM

The females are pretty, they just don't look anything like the males. Also, there are two classes of males, the secondary males being inferior in finnage and coloration to the older primary males.

An awesome fish to behold, but their honey-holes are few, and are closely held secrets.

The picture on that webpage does not even come close to doing them justice.

#5 Guest_bearskookums_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:32 PM

Hey I just noticed the NANFA logo above has a similar fish...is that the same one? the one on the left...must be right...with the blue nose.

#6 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:33 PM

Hey I just noticed the NANFA logo above has a similar fish...is that the same one? the one on the left...must be right...with the blue nose.

Nope, it's a similar one :-)

#7 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 08:35 PM

The one at the top of the page is Pt. Welaka

#8 Guest_Mysteryman_*

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 11:21 AM

I guess I'll chime in as well.

The Bluehead is a very nice fish indeed, even nicer than the Bluenose if you like the color blue. As Irate already mentioned, there are two distinct types of males, the breeder male and the terminal male. The terminal one is the one with all the real pizzazz, and is typically past breeding age. The younger breeder males are still easily distinguished from the plainjane females, but don't have as much fin length and color as the old males. The same holds true with the Bluenose, by the way, but not to as great an extent by any means.

Both of these fish enjoy a good geographic distribution, bu neither is common despite that. The Bluenose is most likely a lot more common than commonly believed, if only because it prefers to live in areas dificult to reach by man. The Blueheads, on the other hand, are much more accessible, but sadly not as common.
The Blueheads are protected in much of their range, and really hard to find where they aren't. The very best place to find them, with shoals of thousands, is in a lake bordering a state line. In one of those states the fish is highly protected, while in the other it isn't. In fact, in many of the states in which it occurs, it only occurs in one or two small locations. It used to be common in Wolf Lake in southern Illinois, but an accident wiped them all out, and now the fish is absent in that state.

One look at these two fish should be enough to show that neither one actually belongs in the genus Pteronotropis along with the seven others of the group. As it happens, this group is currently being reworked, and soon these two shiners are expected to be placed within their own genus, along with the Redeye Chub, Notropis harperi. If you were to look at welakas and harperis side by side you'd understand why; they are very similar , and indeed, the females are very hard to tell apart from each other if the sunlight isn't shining on them just right. The welaka females will have an iridescent purple cast lacking in the redeyes. I currently keep welakas and harperis together, and not only do they get along just fine, the male Bluenoses will often make their courstship displays toward the female Redeyes.

This is what I heard, anyway, several months ago. I don't know the official taxonomic status of these fish at present.

Spawning:
Both of these fish are notoriously difficult to spawn, but the Bluehead is regarded as being much easier than the Bluenose. I haven't spawned hubbsi, but apparently they spawn with or without a host nest ( they prefer warmouths ) and will spawn in an aquarium with only photoperiod, food, and temperature to condition them over a few months. Bluenoses need the same, but they don't spawn as readily without a host nest. ( they prefer Longears ) I was able to get them to spawn in a fake nest by introducing some longear milt into the tank after they were fully conditioned. I tried it again a few months ago with Warmouth milt, but didn't get results. ( although I bet it'll work. Todd and I found some near some spawning warmouths )
Bob Goldstien's big American Aquarium Fishes book gives the recipie for conditioning and spawning the Bluehead.
They are very avid egg-eaters, too, by the way.

The other Pteronotropis species likewise look similar to each other, and are also very snazzy fish. Luckily for us they are much easier to find, catch, transport, keep, and spawn than these other two hardcases!

#9 Guest_dsmith73_*

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 11:46 AM

One look at these two fish should be enough to show that neither one actually belongs in the genus Pteronotropis along with the seven others of the group. As it happens, this group is currently being reworked, and soon these two shiners are expected to be placed within their own genus, along with the Redeye Chub, Notropis harperi. If you were to look at welakas and harperis side by side you'd understand why; they are very similar , and indeed, the females are very hard to tell apart from each other if the sunlight isn't shining on them just right. The welaka females will have an iridescent purple cast lacking in the redeyes. I currently keep welakas and harperis together, and not only do they get along just fine, the male Bluenoses will often make their courstship displays toward the female Redeyes.

This is what I heard, anyway, several months ago. I don't know the official taxonomic status of these fish at present.

Spawning:
Both of these fish are notoriously difficult to spawn, but the Bluehead is regarded as being much easier than the Bluenose. I haven't spawned hubbsi, but apparently they spawn with or without a host nest ( they prefer warmouths ) and will spawn in an aquarium with only photoperiod, food, and temperature to condition them over a few months. Bluenoses need the same, but they don't spawn as readily without a host nest. ( they prefer Longears ) I was able to get them to spawn in a fake nest by introducing some longear milt into the tank after they were fully conditioned. I tried it again a few months ago with Warmouth milt, but didn't get results. ( although I bet it'll work. Todd and I found some near some spawning warmouths )
Bob Goldstien's big American Aquarium Fishes book gives the recipie for conditioning and spawning the Bluehead.
They are very avid egg-eaters, too, by the way.


This is correct. The bluenose, bluehead and redeye chub will all be removed to a new genus shortly. This is a project of one of Maygen's students. Jason Allen. We took him out several months ago to get stonei from SC and I believe he has made an attempt to collect every species of Pteronotropis from every possible drainage over the last year or so.

Where we get bluenose in AL, they must spawn over L. miniatus nest since this is the dominant sunfish there and there are no megalotis at all.

#10 Guest_boringname_*

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 01:29 AM

I know this an old thread, I'm posting to it to find out if the info in it is still current. Is it still difficult to find captive bred examples of these species?

#11 Guest_truf_*

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 08:44 PM

It used to be common in Wolf Lake in southern Illinois, but an accident wiped them all out, and now the fish is absent in that state.

Why has there been no attempt to re-establish these in Wolf Lake? Also, how in the world did the range become so extremely disjunct?
Would it be unwise to try to establish breeding colonies in some other locations, in spite of the fact it may not be native to that particular area? Since they obviously can survive colder climates if they had a population in Illinois, could breeding populations be established in spring-fed marshes near the same latitude as the one formerly in Illinois?
If anyone has any information or opinion on this, please chime in....
-Thom

#12 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 07 April 2009 - 09:17 PM

Why has there been no attempt to re-establish these in Wolf Lake? Also, how in the world did the range become so extremely disjunct?
Would it be unwise to try to establish breeding colonies in some other locations, in spite of the fact it may not be native to that particular area? Since they obviously can survive colder climates if they had a population in Illinois, could breeding populations be established in spring-fed marshes near the same latitude as the one formerly in Illinois?
If anyone has any information or opinion on this, please chime in....
-Thom



Part of Wolf Lake is still owned by a private company so there is no guarantee another spill will not occur. It's also quite probable the lake is still too out of whack to stock. A substantial restocking effort was attempted nearby in the 90's but it appears the efforts failed.
The area where they live(d) in Illinois is a bit odd in that it's lowland near the Mississippi but it also receives a great deal of cool ground water. I suspect this constant flow of groundwater does a great deal in regulating temperatures in both summer and winter.



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