Newbie here.

I have been a trout fishing, rock flipping salamander hunter my whole life. But before last week I had never put on a mask & snorkel and floated a mountain stream. I have to say that was one of the most amazing experiences of my life.

I was hoping to see a hellbender, and was expecting to see mostly trout. As it turned out, I didn't see either. What I saw was an underwater world that blew my mind. So many fish I could not identify. I was able to i.d. warpaint shiners tho. Wow!

In fact, I am going back out tomorrow to check out more creeks.

Just wondering what are some good areas in Western North Carolina? I have a "cabin" near Robbinsville so I will be checking out the areas around the Cheoah & Tellico Rivers more than anything I'm sure. I also go into Tennessee a little along the upper Tennessee River drainage below Fontana reservoir.

Just wondering what I should look for?

Here's a pic of my wife on our trip last week.

Edited by Creekwalker, 14 July 2011 - 09:00 PM.

You have found yourself on the One True Path, my friend There is, in my opinion, no better way to enjoy our fishes in the summer time than face down in some cool clear water. That seining bit is just too much work and trouble in the heat... and my definition of "heat" is getting cooler and cooler.

There's so much to explore at your cabin and even around your house. I don't have specifics on the Tellico and Cheoah, although I know both are fantastic places to explore... Just bring your neoprene! If you're looking for something warmer around the house, you might check the Mills or Little, or Ivy Creek. Even the mainstem French Broad can be very interesting. I was just up that way earlier this year... some of the footage and photos can be viewed here if you haven't seen it already:

http://forum.nanfa.o...uatic-delights/

I'm jealous of your locality, you have so much excellent water around you! The upper Catawba is amazing too. Wilson Creek is a favorite site of mine.

Enjoy!

Todd

Wow Todd! Just looked at your other thread......that was amazing!!!!!!

What camera are you using for the stills? I need a waterproof camera that won't break the bank.

Thanks!

As a boy, we were our own field biologists. Often the areas we fished were our swimming holes. We'd snorkle all the areas to see whats there & in quantity so we knew where to fish. I think thats where my passion started... managing my own fishery.

The camera I use will break the bank, specifically the housing. It's a Sony Hi-Def video camera that also takes stills. People have had really great results with both the Olympus and Pentax underwater cameras. However, you should definitely get the additional warranty, as it seems stream sampling gets sand in the seals and they ultimately end up failing. It is totally worth the extra $$ to just send it back. I think you can come out a total winner in under $500.

Todd

I think you can come out a total winner in under $500.

As a really cheap guy, I think you can do great in the $250 range particularly for your first underwater camera... take a look at the new pentax that lists for $299... I have had better luck with Pentax on the durability side than other have had with their olympus...

I should clarify... When I said $500, I meant with all the accessories and stuff, you're "in the water and posting pics on the web". Maybe since cards are so much less expensive these days, that should be more like $400.

Todd

I should clarify... When I said $500, I meant with all the accessories and stuff, you're "in the water and posting pics on the web". Maybe since cards are so much less expensive these days, that should be more like $400.

Todd

Farmer - I've gotten into snorkeling myself - oodles of fun. Mostly I'm swimming in saltwater (I'm on Long Island) but last week enjoyed fresh water snorkeling in some of the springs in the Ocala / Orlando area of Florida - very cool. Anyway, I want to explore more fresh water, but have a concern - do you ever have concerns with water borne parasites? I don't mean to seem alarmist, but I've not seen this issue addressed in the forum, and wonder
if it's an issue, and whether you take any precautions. THANKS for your thoughts . . .

Anyway, I want to explore more fresh water, but have a concern - do you ever have concerns with water borne parasites?

Schistosomiasis is common in Africa. I wouldn't snorkel there. More info: http://en.wikipedia....Schistosomiasis
But this is North America. I've heard of problems with ticks, leeches, and E. coli (near sewage effluent streams) but that's about it. I'm interested what the people who actually snorkel say, though. My experience is just from swimming.

Schistosomiasis is common in Africa. I wouldn't snorkel there. More info: http://en.wikipedia....Schistosomiasis
But this is North America. I've heard of problems with ticks, leeches, and E. coli (near sewage effluent streams) but that's about it. I'm interested what the people who actually snorkel say, though. My experience is just from swimming.

I got a tick today, but that was walking though the grass and weeds trying to get to the stream... and I have had a leech or two, but that is normally only in more stagnate or mudy waters where I was seining... never had anything while snorkeling... lots of the water we snorkel in is pretty cold and clear, not sure what would be in there... but never had anything like a cold or flu or allergic reaction to any snorkeling...

Yeah, I doubt you'll catch any truly parasitic diseases in most North American waters. If you gulp down lots of untreated water you're at risk for Giardia, but that's a different story.

E. coli, coliforms and hepatitis are very very very real problems that you need to be aware of when you're contemplating dunking your head into the waters of these great states. The best way to look at it is a reduction in risk.

As such, there are a few generalities about this...

The more concentrated the population, the higher the risk.
The more concentrated the livestock, the higher the risk.
The smaller the stream, the greater the risk because the dilution is least (or it could be viewed as the contribution from a source occupies a higher percentage of the discharge).
The more close to a storm pulse, the greater the risk.

In one stream where we did a lot of work with mussels in Ohio, we found that a small municipalities' sewage discharge actually DILUTE the total fecal coliforms. We also found that the area with the lowest human population had a ridiculous amount of coliforms (9000 Coliform Forming Units) and the area where we were super careful due to a profusion of combined sewer overflows was closer to the recommended contact level (200 - 400 CFU) apart from storm pulses because the area has incredibly high flushing potential being a downstream reach.

After this awakening, we've been quite careful to investigate stream by the REACH, if we plan to put our heads into it and you can do a fair amount of investigation on any state's EPA websites to look for general trends in harmful bacteria. What you're looking for are their TMDL results for a particular stream.

Some tell-tale signs of trouble are continuous, thick orange/brown biofilms on rocks, such as you see here:

http://www.farmertod...r_Darter_03.htm

This was in the Conasauga River, in which the upstream portions are immaculate. Once hitting the valley floor, it gets crapped up quick, presumably by cows, but I'm not sure thick alluvium like that is really an acceptable place to dump human poop either (which we hypothesize is the problem in the mussel stream I mentioned). I would NOT stick my head in this water after an intermediate pulse especially, no matter if amber darter were involved or not You're asking for an ear infection at a minimum, and I used swim drops extensively after this swim (which was in Nov at lowest flows).

If you catch a whiff of a smell that's unsavory, I would not stick my head in. There's a certain smell that comes from fecal nutrification, I don't know how to quantify that tho. The biofilms are usually the most quantifiable sign of issues.

That all said... You reduce risk by using streams that have naturally vegetated uplands with low densities of people. Cheoah and the Upper Little T should be fine, I would go in without any investigation. Michael and Bruce are also more used to streams that fit this bill, and so I don't think it's as on their radar as mine. In Ohio, this is a very real and big problem. There are few stream reaches that I'd put my head in without some prior research.

This might make a good article for AC with some research. If people think it's worthwhile, I think about it, although my chapters take priority

Todd

Thats great information and something IM sure few of us have consideredd while trecking out. My old stomping grounds did have a water treatment plant but we knew as kids to give it a few miles distance because of the stink. Where we did venture in on the downstream side of the plant, I never saw biofilm like that in your pic. This is on the perkiomen creek, montgomery county PA Im refering to. It serviced a small community.

Hi all, I just got back from another trip into the mountains of Graham County North Carolina. I bought an inexpensive camera at the suggestion of another member and tried it out. It's an Olympus X-560WP on sale at Wal Mart for $49. It took a little bit of getting used to the camera. The lens is off center which makes it a little counter-intuitive when trying to find small fast moving fish underwater. I eventually got the hang of it and was able to get a few shots. The video feature was really cool. I will post some video on youtube soon an the posts to this thread.

Meanwhile I was hoping to get some help identifying some fish. I think I know what most of them are, but I'm a novice and would appreciate your ideas.

Not sure how many pics I can get on one post, so I may post multiple times.

Here are two screen captures from some video I shot. It is of a fish I need help identifying. It's a fish that lives on the bottom of mountains streams and rests on it's pectoral fins. It's pretty shy and really difficult to photograph. It's green and mottled and about 4 to 5 inches long. Reminds me of a goby in salt water.

Anyone have any ideas about what it is?

Thanks & sorry about the bad quality pics.

Edited by Creekwalker, 24 July 2011 - 09:04 PM.

Nice pics! Your fish in question is a female or subadult male greenfin darter.

Thanks Todd! I love this place!

Yea that is my camera suggestion. I have given away 2 and sold 2. I will probably grab a couple more for future options and as backups. So far the camera works well for me. The video is not choppy like my other models, and offers a better rez. I need a bit more settings study with mine but it is pretty easy to use. I wish it had an LED and be drop proof, but 50 bucks not to be beaten.

Starting with the top 2... a Chub, probably a River Chub. You can still see his remnant horns, tubercules on his head from breeding season.

Next is a Hogsucker. An easy ID.

Dang... in the reply screen i cant see your pics. I saw a Rosyside Dace and a Trout, i think a Brook with the white edge of the fins. Todd is good to call that a Greenfin Darter... i would be about 90% if i knew exactly where you were considering the blur. Female Redline perhaps. Greenfins are common from the site we dicussed earlier.

Looks like we may be rendevousing your way come August.

No Tangerines? Fruit crates full up there.

Casper

Thanks Casper! Haven't found the tangerines yet. I think I know where you might be hinting at.

I think Todd might be right on the greenfin. It has a more pointed nose than the male in the Peterson guide, but looks very much like the one on this site:

http://web.utk.edu/~.../pics/main.html

Edited by Creekwalker, 24 July 2011 - 10:32 PM.

Could it be a log perch darter? Check this one out:

http://web.utk.edu/~...cs/caprodes.JPG

Edited by Creekwalker, 24 July 2011 - 11:22 PM.