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*NEW* NANFA Gallery


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#21 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:12 AM

Managing the gallery is a huge pain in the ass. People join all the time that are not members. The NANFA database is unusable for sorting out membership status so every person who tries to sign up must checked and cross checked 5 different ways. Member anonymity can also slow the process. It's a time robber and would benefit from a dedicated manager - any volunteers after that sales job?

I won't comment on how much I like the gallery just because it's difficult with the current tools to manage properly. Do what needs to be done Drew and thanks for maintaining it!

At least 390 views on your album Casper. That's what...four~six times the number of attendees and better than 3/4 of the total NANFA membership?


I would be happy to manage it. I still don't think it would require much work to cross reference NANFA members. People are making NANFA sound like it has a membership of the NRA.

There are only 4 pages of members on the gallery -- roughly 50 photo galleries by my count. If I had a problem with the work load, then I would be sure to bring that to the attention of the other volunteers in this organization instead of doing all the work and cryptically complaining that the work is too much (once again, I'd like to hear from Drew on exactly what it takes to manage such a gallery).

Maybe with the gallery it would be best to lock it off to all new additions, and have someone create each new member gallery by request. Once the gallery is created, the user could have to control of his/her album. That would solve the problem of "people joining all the time that are not members."

#22 Guest_blakemarkwell_*

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:00 PM

I have now been informed of the BoD discussion, and the bigger issues at hand.

I will remain optimistic, and hope that a more efficient system will be implemented with the perks of the former. I was sitting here thinking that a wonderfully structured gallery was going to be faded out for something inferior without any resistance... Like before, I am here to help if needed.

#23 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:48 PM

The gallery is fantastic, and contains the best native photos on the web. Hopefully you can be of some help with it Blake.

#24 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:31 AM

I have now been informed of the BoD discussion, and the bigger issues at hand.

I will remain optimistic, and hope that a more efficient system will be implemented with the perks of the former. I was sitting here thinking that a wonderfully structured gallery was going to be faded out for something inferior without any resistance... Like before, I am here to help if needed.


Blake,
I am unaware of any BoD discussion of this issue however if you need help getting started on managing the NANFA gallery, I will provided detailed instruction (walk through) to get you started.

#25 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 10:00 AM

Why is it there was no discussion asking the membership if this is what they wanted?

Sounds like it had already been decided before this addition occurred, Gallery Archive out, Forum Gallery in.

NANFA has been a great resource to me. Unfortunately, certain aspects of the organization I’ve utilized have changed platforms and degraded over time to where the only resource I still devote time to is the Gallery Archive. As Blake mentioned, it’s simply enough for me to use, easily browsed, very professional in appearance, and it’s highly customizable – which is huge. If the Gallery Archive gets dissolved and a Facebook style Forum Gallery is what this organization is headed for, my $25 will be spent on a Flickr renewal and no longer this organization.


It’s not up to a single person or two to maintain the online duties of this organization.
To my knowledge, no one is getting paid here. Share the workload. There are people within NANFA that want to help, and are capable of helping. All it takes is communication.

Edited by natureman187, 12 July 2012 - 10:55 AM.


#26 Guest_Drew_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:28 AM

Wow, people really don't like change... I can tell you what to do with that $25...

If you actually care about what is going on with the organization, subscribe to the BoD mailing list and contribute to it. These type of decisions are discussed and approved by the BoD who were voted in by the membership.

The concerns regarding the current Gallery were addressed and it was decided that they will co-exist and we'll see how things play out.

Like I said, the idea was to consolidate the services. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work and we'll stick with what we have.

Some days I don't even know why I'm still here...

#27 Guest_Drew_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

Blake/Todd,

If you guys want to take over the Gallery, let me know. You can take it into whatever direction you think would benefit the organization.

If anyone else would like to contribute to the Forum administration, please let me know. We can work that out too.

#28 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

Those who jump in both feet first normally break both legs and drown.

The Forum Gallery is not an acceptable substitute for the old Gallery. I can understand that the old Gallery software had some issues with security (Would a switch to the new v3.04 Gallery have ameliorated those issues?). It also happened to make for a clean and elegant presentation of photos that was far superior to all other commercially available products that I've seen.

I have reduced functionality of the "new" Gallery on Mac OSX; I don't get an option to move files into folders easily except under the "Delete" button, and that only allows me to move <everything> from one folder into another.

Metadata (species, locality, etc) is only visible at intermediate sizing; not in thumbnails, and not in the Slide Show option. I could rename all my images to the species name plus some identifier, but this would still only be a partial solution.

The default "show 100x100 cropped thumbnail" is ugly and not helpful if there are a large number of images you want to look through. This might be solved by changing the default setting to "small" rather than "square."

The stupid "stack of photos" border on files is hideous.

The integrated Twatter/Facetome "Oooh, look at me, look what I just found" buttons are highly annoying. If I wanted these on Facetome I would have posted them there in the first place. Same with the comments/stars function. What possible beneficial function do these serve? I can almost guarantee you that the photos that I'm most proud of are ones that nobody else would like, because they're of fish that required particular effort to get or are otherwise special.

Like Blake and Lance, I'm frustrated and angry. I'm angry at myself for trying to make this work, and at NANFA in general... A little heads-up advance notice might have gone a long way.

As for telling us that we don't care because we don't suscribe to the BOD list, well, that's a load of you-know-what.

I'm done.

#29 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:32 PM

Lance and Dave I am sorry to hear that the new gallery is not working out well for you. I have not visited it yet so I am not aware of the specific issues. The decision to go with the new gallery was one that was discussed long and hard and it was one that was made in order to hopefully consolidate services and help move the organization forward. Drew does a enormous amount of work and anything that could be done to lighten his load is a good thing. When we made the decision,it was done so with a caveat that we would go back to the old gallery if need be. We never wanted to reduce services or the quality of service just to make an effort to streamline them. I had hoped that there could have been some constructive criticism in regard to the trial period but that seems to not be an option. We need to evaluate the new gallery fully before we decide to go back to the old gallery. Dave and Lance is it safe to assume you raised your concerns privately with Drew before getting angry and frustrated and expressing it here? You guys are some of the best contributors to gallery and we certainly do not want to lose your content or future contributions. I don't think anyone was suggesting that you don't care about NANFA if you don't follow the BOD list only that this is where these discussions take place and if you are interested in following these discussions, this is where to do it. We can't send mailings out for all administrative decisions and we did not think this warranted a special announcement either. I would ask that everyone give this some time in order for the new gallery to be fully evaluated. If you have concerns in the meantime, I am sure that Todd, Blake or any of the forum admins could help you out.

#30 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:38 PM

I had hoped that there could have been some constructive criticism in regard to the trial period

Could there please be a way to upload pictures directly from the old gallery to the new one?

#31 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 06:56 PM

Erica,

I do not think there is any way to do a mass transfer. However, at this point, I also do not think the "old" gallery will be going away any time in the near future. If you can, just sit tight until we work out all the administrative issues.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#32 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:20 PM

Please, everyone who is upset or doesn't like the new gallery read this quote:

The concerns regarding the current Gallery were addressed and it was decided that they will co-exist and we'll see how things play out.


The old one is still running. I would really hate to lose contact with fellow native fish lovers over something as trivial as a miscommunication on the way the galleries are going to work!

Perhaps I shouldn't suggest this, considering my abysmal position in the hierarchy of important and contributing members, but I think it would be helpful if everyone who is upset, take a moment and clear your mind. Everyone gets frustrated sometimes, which means that everyone has at least one thing in common! And if we are similar people, then it makes sense that we can get along if we keep trying. Go have some popcorn (optionally, any other snack you favor).

As I understand it, the traditional gallery was unwieldy because of the laborous processing of new members. However, it is the more ideal gallery in terms of format and customization. The conclusion that I have reached is that the ideal situation would be to keep the old gallery, but add on to it the forum connectivity and streamlined management of the new one. This needs not happen immediately, for decisions have yet to be made as far as management, but it would be best if this was tackled sooner rather than later so that we can reduce the length of time that Drew has to work on the traditional gallery. If anyone is learned in scripting language, please raise your voice if you feel willing to help make this happen. A few people who are close to me work with some of these things so I will also contact them and see if they can try to make this happen.

Posted Image
Have a nice day!

#33 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:30 PM

Thank you Orangespotted! A voice of sanity. Nothing has changed at this point, except that Drew has been beaten up. Both galleries are there now, and if the new one does not work, then so be it. This was a request from Drew to lighten his load if it does not work out, I certainly would not expect your galleries to disappear. Relax everybody. I am sure most of us have at least graduated high school.

#34 Guest_Orangespotted_*

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 07:45 PM

Relax everybody. I am sure most of us have at least graduated high school.


Most of us! 8-[

I will be able to contact my computer friends by at latest Sunday, and if they have any ideas or are willing to help then I will try and PM one or more of the moderators so that this can hopefully be worked out. (I can't say I know much about computers myself.)

Edited by Orangespotted, 12 July 2012 - 07:58 PM.


#35 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 08:15 AM

The decision to go with the new gallery was one that was discussed long and hard and it was one that was made in order to hopefully consolidate services and help move the organization forward. I don't think anyone was suggesting that you don't care about NANFA if you don't follow the BOD list only that this is where these discussions take place and if you are interested in following these discussions, this is where to do it.


Dustin, this is not the thread I read on the BOD list. What I read was a request for the change, people asked pertinent questions, some cursory answers, the ever present threat to quit, and then a vote. Hardly a discussion, and a strong sense of deja vu.

My suggestions is that you consider a more sustainable model going forward, one that doesn't rely on the efforts of a single volunteer, and includes investigation of paid services if these online ventures are critical to accomplishing the mission of NANFA. Action concerning the Forum seems tied too strongly to the opinions of one person, and it seems to me that everyone is held hostage to that single opinion, whether they'd like to recognize that or not. This has been in place since the original agreement (or Faustian Deal as some see it) to brand this particular forum under NANFA's name. I think this is illustrated perfectly in the fact that somehow, without asking, I'm now a Gallery Administrator. Is that how you want the organization run? Someone throws a temper tantrum and then suddenly people who haven't accepted or asked for responsibility now are responsible?

In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy my American Currents and will see those who attend the Convention, but I think I've had just about enough of this. I had 15 five to ten year olds rushing into a large seine the other night like it was Christmas. I'd prefer to spend my energy on that.

Respectfully,
Todd

#36 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:27 AM

A voice of sanity. Nothing has changed at this point, except that Drew has been beaten up. Both galleries are there now, and if the new one does not work, then so be it. This was a request from Drew to lighten his load if it does not work out, I certainly would not expect your galleries to disappear.

Is the old gallery going to eventually be deleted?

That was the original plan but as Blake said, it gets a lot of traffic, so we'll see.

Writing’s on the wall my friend – you don’t expect our galleries to disappear but that was the original plan. Were we not supposed to voice our opinions?


Lance and Dave I am sorry to hear that the new gallery is not working out well for you. I have not visited it yet so I am not aware of the specific issues.

Dave thoroughly evaluated it for you – cite post #28. It’s crap.

Dave and Lance is it safe to assume you raised your concerns privately with Drew before getting angry and frustrated and expressing it here?

In the past 4 years I’ve had one conversation with Drew in private messager asking me to adjust my attitude. I agreed to stop harassing a member of the forum if I could have my name removed when used in full from this board, as I didn’t want it associated with this forum any longer. It’s been three months and I haven’t opened my mouth regarding the annoyance of this member – I still have my name all over this forum. Might I add, I could remove this myself if the power to edit wasn’t stripped from us members. Why would I want to ask another question in private if I received no message response or affirmative action from the previous?

You guys are some of the best contributors to gallery and we certainly do not want to lose your content or future contributions.

This is the frustration, Dustin. No one asked us Gallery Archive users if we wanted to change platforms to a Facebook style Forum Gallery. It was just done within a small nook of the organization that few members participate in yet alone even know about, with intentions of scrapping the Gallery Archive entirely.
The membership pays yearly to utilize the resources of the organization. The membership then provides for free, quality data that becomes readily searchable and available out to the public that assists in attracting new members, revenue, back to NANFA. The organization caters to us the membership, and in tern, we appreciate it. You take care of us and we’ll take care of you. As soon as this process stops, its members are being used. If a change isn’t warranted, my membership and contributions are gone.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that you don't care about NANFA if you don't follow the BOD list only that this is where these discussions take place and if you are interested in following these discussions, this is where to do it. We can't send mailings out for all administrative decisions and we did not think this warranted a special announcement either.

You do have a forum….
No one uses the NANFA list serve anymore because we switched to a forum, remember?
I’m sure decisions are easier to make on the NANFA BOD list serve when there’s not many opinions to weigh.

#37 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:39 AM

This regular sniping of the forum origination is irritating.
Faustian deal? You can blame be personally because I am the devil.
I insisted the forum remain autonomous. It was necessary for day to day operation at the least.
The forum and other electronic aspects are set up to be passed on as they have.

All of this can be undone with a single BoD vote; also by (simple) design.

#38 Guest_Dustin_*

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 11:59 AM

It bothers me that there are such I'll feelings towards the BOD, admins, etc. The BOD list is open for all to read and comment on. The forum is fully supported as is by the BOD. It's creation and oversight have all taken place with the objectives of NANFA as our guide.

I want to point out once again that we were switching over to ease the administrators' duties. It was always our intention that if things did not work out we would simply revert back to the old system.

For anyone that is interested in having more of a say in the decisions made by the board, please subscribe to the BOD list, or better yet run for a position on then board. It's very easy to criticize from afar. Any of you are welcome to have my seat as it will be vacant after this year. And for those of you that provide quality content to botht the forum and gallery, you are all both my friends and great advocates of our native fish. For you to take your ball and go home over an issue so small as a possibly temporary) software change is ridiculous and hurts the very thing we are here to protect and advocate.

#39 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 12:01 PM

This is the frustration, Dustin. No one asked us Gallery Archive users if we wanted to change platforms to a Facebook style Forum Gallery. It was just done within a small nook of the organization that few members participate in yet alone even know about, with intentions of scrapping the Gallery Archive entirely.
The membership pays yearly to utilize the resources of the organization. The membership then provides for free, quality data that becomes readily searchable and available out to the public that assists in attracting new members, revenue, back to NANFA. The organization caters to us the membership, and in tern, we appreciate it. You take care of us and we’ll take care of you. As soon as this process stops, its members are being used. If a change isn’t warranted, my membership and contributions are gone.


Lance, it does not appear the gallery contents were going to be deleted.
Sure I like the gallery but it requires regular attention for new members. Without people to manage the gallery, it's a natural to have it merged into something that requires less management. It seems the BoD and Drew(?) saw this as the most logical move since we lack manpower. Keep it? Sure! Now that we have Blake to manage it, we're good for a while. We just need to keep finding a Blake when we need them!

You do have a forum….
No one uses the NANFA list serve anymore because we switched to a forum, remember?
I’m sure decisions are easier to make on the NANFA BOD list serve when there’s not many opinions to weigh.


Sort of two different mentalities here....and why the forum required independent management. The BoD does not necessarily visit or participate on the forum. If you ask the BoD nicely, they might start a place on the forum (under NANFA organization) to float trial balloons. But then the non-forum users will be sending nastygrams.

It's really impossible to keep all members happy with a decision and gets even harder when you lack volunteers.

#40 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 13 July 2012 - 05:20 PM

Natureman187, If you are really concerned with being associated with the forum. Then there is no problem with removing your flicker gallery from your profile as well, as it fully states your full name, and shows photos of you. That you can do, but have not done it, hmm. The rest, is up to you, and the admin.




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