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A classic model for ecological stability revised, 40 years later


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#1 Guest_mywan_*

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:30 AM

Very interesting article: http://www.physorg.c...lity-years.html

Preprint: http://arxiv.org/abs/1105.2071

I still need to study it in more detail to get a more complete picture of the implications.

#2 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:57 AM

May has never been anything if not self-impressed. His attempt to model diversity in one small equation, and to disprove at least short-term stability in complex communities, was always a thought exercise at best.

#3 Guest_mywan_*

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:39 AM

I agree in general. There are loads of implicit assumptions in such a simplistic model that I am almost certain are not entirely valid. However, as someone who knows a little about network science it is quiet clear certain mathematical relationships hold irrespective of context. Some even describe similarities between cities, economies of scale, and ecology. The one thing you can't do is take these mathematical models as in any way indicative of a complete description. Even if valid it's no more than a piece of the puzzle, not the puzzle itself.

I still find it interesting, as it gives me some ideas on what might be missing from these relationships.

#4 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:17 AM

So the answer, Bruce, is to continue creating a multitude of disparate annecdotes, rather than finding a central hypothesis to test? Even if it's falsifiable, the reason is probably really interesting.

Todd

#5 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:06 PM

It begs the question, IS there a central hypothesis? Biology is messy and subject to all sorts of contingencies at all scales.

#6 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:44 PM

There won't be one with that attitude, now will there be, mister? :)

#7 Guest_mywan_*

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

I would say yes there is a central hypothesis. Though it only specifies a class, rather than a complete description. It almost seems to me you are expecting such a hypothesis to fill in every detail of the observed picture. This in general is a lot like expecting a dice hypothesis to predict every dice roll.

#8 Guest_fundulus_*

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:51 AM

It's not all yes or no, like I said it can be a thought exercise, setting up a straw man like Hardy-Weinberg to tease out what you think might be happening. And yes, it's messy, one of Darwin's key insights.



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