I have looked around the site a little but havent really found anything about keeping natives with tropical fish.
I have a 55 gallon with tropical fish in it right now and was wondering if a pumpkinseed sunfish would work in that tank? my tank is at 80 degrees right now but i could drop it to about 75 if needed.

5 giant danios all about 3 inches
1 convict cichlid 4inches
1 firemouth cichlid about 3 inches

Generally speaking, it's not a good idea simply because of the different temperature preferences of tropical versus native fish. I don't think many people try it for that reason, but if you can find a temperature that your specific species of fish can all live in, then aggression would be your next issue. It might work, or you might end up with just the one fish that survives the fight they all get into.

Aggression is very important, I agree. A lot of the problem with aggression, I found out from my cichlid keeping friends at the Ohio Cichlid Association (great club, check out their extravaganza) is due to having the wrong stocking density. If you've got too few fish in the tank, one of the males might get it in his mind that he's the dominant male and that he deserves to have his own bit of territory. If that happens he'll fight to defend that territory from the other fish and then you can get injuries. If you crowd them a little bit they don't try to claim territories or just are so unsuccessful at keeping other fish out of their space that they give up. So, yeah, stocking density is important. I think the best stocking density depends on the species, too.

Brian Zimmerman (username smbass) talked about stocking density one time on a topic. Here, I found it, it's post #11 of this topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...#entry88279  

Bantams and orangespotted sunfish do work very well together. I keep my brood stock of these two species together in the same tank every winter. Neither of them is overly aggressive and you can quite easily keep a large variety of shiners and other appropriately sized fish with them.

...

As far as longears and dollars go... the larger strains, forms, subspecies, what ever you want to call them, can be kept as a group of 6 in a 55 but it works best as a sunfish only tank. The only tank mates that work well are usually catfish. Also the tank needs to be complex, by this I mean lots of hiding places in the form of rocks, wood, or plants. You can mix a variety of different similarly sized sunfish but the number of 6 fish is good to stick too. Fewer you run into a fish becoming too dominant over the rest and more fish of that size just starts to be too much for the tank to handle. Northern longears and dollars are very similar in size and personality but the N. longear does seem to be a little less aggressive. These you can keep a group of 6 of one or mix of both with a group of shiners in a 55 if they are a little more durable shiner species like Cyprinella sp. Or if it was a sunfish only tank I would probably go with 8 fish of these two. If you strictly had sunfish and had just Bantams and Orangespotted I would say 10-12 is safe for a 55 gallon tank.

Also unless you are planning to breed them don't rule out having a mixed group. I think the number of Lepomis sunfish is more important than the species. You can mix the big guys with the little guys if the numbers and complexity of the tank are right. My big 200 gallon display tank has proven this beyond a doubt. A giant green sunfish living with a beautiful little western dollar and northern longear with no trouble at all. You could quite easily mix a group of 8 of the smaller 4 in a 55... two each N. longear, dollar, bantam, orangespotted... Or 6 mid sized fish longear, green, blackspotted, redspotted, warmouth, pumpkinseed, redbreast, just avoid the two biggest ones with a tank under 75 gallons, bluegill and redear. I have them all but those two biggest ones because they are the biggest and least colorful in my opinion.

Caves are also important for helping everybody get along. That way if someone is being picked on they can go hide for a little bit to rest and get away from the aggression. I saw a really cool cave design that ran the length of the tank. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9lUq4PDvKs
It is good to have a large number of hiding spots when you're trying to decrease aggression.

You can also decrease aggression by breaking up the lines of sight in the tank. For example if the fish can see all the way down the tank then it can see its nemesis several feet away from itself and will swim to the other fish and start fighting. If there was a clump of plants or some sort of decoration in between the two fish several feet apart, they wouldn't fight as much because they wouldn't see each other as often.

And the last tip for decreasing aggression is sort of a drastic one and is usually used for breeding. What they do is they light only part of the tank, for example the right-most 1/5 of the tank. The big male will swim in the light and display. Then they stock the rest of the fish with females of the same species of the male. When a lady wants to attempt mating she'll swim into the light and try to get courted. If she gets hurt she'll swim back into the dark. This works for fish that hunt by sight, so if you turn off the lights they can't find and kill one another. It also serves to emphasize the importance of breaking up lines of sight from the previous paragraph. If they can't see one another, they can't fight.

Yup, those are some tips. You can also have a second tank on hand for if the fish start fighting. Sometimes it helps not to remove the new fish, but the established fish to the new tank. The reason for that is the fish might be fighting because they see the new one as an invader. By taking the established fish out for a few days or up to a week they automatically lose the right to defend their space. For example I breed chinchillas and yesterday I put Daisy into a big cage with Bambi, Raal, and Hachiko. Raal is very young and a real sweetie. She immediately wanted to be friends with Daisy. Bambi's a male and after some slight aggression he just wanted to breed with Daisy. But Hachiko is an older female and although she acted sweet, as I sat there and watched them interact for an hour, Hachiko slowly walked up to Daisy as if they were friends and after some sniffing, suddenly swiped a bite at Daisy. So I decided that wasn't good and I stuck Hachiko in Daisy's [empty] cage. Hachiko was super upset and proceeded to shred the cardboard box in Daisy's cage. I left her in there for a day or two and then put Hachiko in the cage with the new happy family. She's much better behaved now. Animals are like that. They just... feel the need to be respected. Sometimes you have to take them down a peg in the social order by removing them for a day or two so they'll all get along.

I hope that if you do combine your fish you document what happens here. A lot of the problem is that people just haven't tried mixing native fish and cichlids. Or if they do they don't share what happened. It would really help if you took pictures or even just posted here in words what happens. You can also share here: http://forum.nanfa.o...h-and-cichlids/

Edited by EricaWieser, 27 October 2012 - 01:29 PM.

What Erica said, plus rearranging the tank prior to putting in the new fish can help, because then nobody has an established territory to defend.

thank you all for the information. it seems i was more worried about temperature than aggression because the convict is very aggressive. i had to remove another cichlid i tried to add a couple of days ago because he wouldnt leave it alone. i did many of things suggested but no luck he was just fixated on the new fish.so i have a feeling it will probably go the same way if i decide to add the pumpkinseed which is a bummer because its so beautiful. I really hate to give up my convict cichlid as he is really interesting to watch and owner responsive. i guess i will ponder the idea a little more.

thank you all for the information. it seems i was more worried about temperature than aggression because the convict is very aggressive. i had to remove another cichlid i tried to add a couple of days ago because he wouldnt leave it alone. i did many of things suggested but no luck he was just fixated on the new fish.so i have a feeling it will probably go the same way if i decide to add the pumpkinseed which is a bummer because its so beautiful. I really hate to give up my convict cichlid as he is really interesting to watch and owner responsive. i guess i will ponder the idea a little more.

Why did you remove the new fish and not the convict? Remove the established fish for a week and then put it back in the tank and they'll likely have a much different dynamic.

So i have had the pumpkinseed in the tank for 2 days now and so far so good very little aggression he seems to be adjusting to the temp and other fish. he hasnt eaten yet he was eating when he was in a holding tank by himself but he was eating worms so i am trying to switch him to pellet food. any suggestions on switching him to pellet food?

he hasnt eaten yet he was eating when he was in a holding tank by himself but he was eating worms so i am trying to switch him to pellet food. any suggestions on switching him to pellet food?

Take things one step at a time, one minor change at a time. It's probably easier to switch him to pellets in the tank he was used to before you try to acclimate him to the other fish. I'm sure he'll start eating worms again if you put him back in the holding tank. Then you can add pellets with the worms and gradually get him switched over. Sunfish, especially immature adults, are known as being relatively easy to switch to pellets, but I've never done it myself. Maybe someone who has more experience with this can give some more specific advice?

Edited by EricaWieser, 30 October 2012 - 05:11 PM.

I would be concerned about keeping a Pumpkinseed in a tank of 75 to 80F. Keep in mind that they are native to northern states, and in the south are replaced by the redear. He might survive at that temperature, but I would bet that he would be stressed.

There's lots of pumpkinseeds in the NC/SC coastal plain in waters that are 80+ F in summer.

its been almost 3 days now and he is doing fine swimming around staking his claim to one of the rock structures in the tank everyone is getting along for the most part keeping in mind 3 of my fish are aggressive by nature so there is bound to be some disputes but it is seldom. he did try to eat a pellet today but spit it out a few times and left it alone so maybe he will come around i am thinking of getting some frozen bloodworms and live mealworms to mix in with the pellets to entice him.

pumpkinseed is still doing good no issues with other fish. still hasnt eaten much i bought some frozen bloodworms and put them in with pellets last night he did eat a couple of the bloodworms but that was it so hopefully he is starting to come around.

I have seen bluegill and pumpkinseed kept with cichlids, such as firemouth, JD, GT, and oscars.

figured i would do an update its been 11 days i have had the pumpkinseed in the tank and all is well so far. i am feeding him mealworms for the time being and he seems to have adjusted well. i couldnt get him to eat pellets so i am still searching for other food options as he is a messy eater and produces a lot of waste. hopefully i will be able to find something other than live food for him to eat eventually.

When you said in an earlier post that you put the frozen bloodworms in with the pellets, did you mean you just fed them both to the pumpkinseed at the same time? You could try thawing some bloodworms and soaking the pellets in their "juice" until they soften up. The additional flavor may make them more appetizing.

I've done that too and it works -- have trained Enneacanthus and some darters to eat worm-juiced or shrimp-juiced cichlid pellets. Doesn't work on every fish, but worth a try. Certain pellets soften quickly, others need 10-15 min to soak.

When you said in an earlier post that you put the frozen bloodworms in with the pellets, did you mean you just fed them both to the pumpkinseed at the same time? You could try thawing some bloodworms and soaking the pellets in their "juice" until they soften up. The additional flavor may make them more appetizing.

When you said in an earlier post that you put the frozen bloodworms in with the pellets, did you mean you just fed them both to the pumpkinseed at the same time? You could try thawing some bloodworms and soaking the pellets in their "juice" until they soften up. The additional flavor may make them more appetizing.

Great idea, something Ive used before is leftover tuna juice to soak the pellets in .