Sunfish Discussion
#1
Posted 14 January 2015 - 09:13 AM
zooxanthellae, that sunfish is a freak... part green but there is something else in there too. What else was found where you caught it, if I had to guess I would say there is some pumpkinseed or maybe dollar sunfish in that thing... Either way it is a really nice looking fish. Just figured you should know if you were calling it a green that is only half right.
Brian J. Zimmerman
Gambier, Ohio - Kokosing River Drainage
#2
Posted 14 January 2015 - 05:12 PM
zooxanthellae, that sunfish is a freak... part green but there is something else in there too. What else was found where you caught it, if I had to guess I would say there is some pumpkinseed or maybe dollar sunfish in that thing... Either way it is a really nice looking fish. Just figured you should know if you were calling it a green that is only half right.
Well, you have definitely piqued my interest. Usually I do not have any issues picking out hybrids, but nothing about that one struck me as odd. Granted the color was incredible, but the general shape, mouth size, and opercular tabs lead me right to green sunfish and I never looked any further. That fish was caught in a retention pond with conspecifics that all looked just as colorful, but no other species were present. What about him leads you to think he is a hybrid? Apparently I need to step up my ID game!
Here is hybrid green from another local pond:
hybrid_green.png 715.81KB 6 downloads
#3
Posted 14 January 2015 - 06:03 PM
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#4
Posted 15 January 2015 - 08:59 AM
Brian J. Zimmerman
Gambier, Ohio - Kokosing River Drainage
#5
Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:29 AM
#6
Posted 15 January 2015 - 01:35 PM
Derek Wheaton
On a mountain overlooking the North Fork Roanoke River on one side, the New River Valley on the other, and a few minutes away from the James River watershed...the good life...
Enchanting Ectotherms
My Personal Facebook (mostly fish related, if you'd like to add me)
#7
Posted 15 January 2015 - 03:21 PM
So I think I am going to have to revisit that pond today and take some more pictures, I'm curious as to whether or not those were just breeding colors.
Not sure if it will help at all, but here is a juvenile (~3") taken the same day, same place. I can see some potential pumpkinseed in this guy.
Lepomis-cyanellus2.png 636.32KB 4 downloads
Out of curiosity, what exactly are you guys using to determine the hybrid status? I've heard color and shape so far, but would feel better about some meristics. I'm getting the impression that color and shape play a much greater role in identifying these than I realized.
#8
Posted 15 January 2015 - 04:21 PM
Hybrid nature to me first based on not a species I am familiar with. Secondly the wavy lines on face indicate green / pumpkin / longear / dollar / redbreast but the brownish color between lines does not jive with any but is something I expect to see with hybrids of those involving bluegill. Lines also too wide with some broken. Not a good example in this guy but the lower jaw back along operculum shows the gray-blue typical of bluegill and all its hybrids I have seen. Flank coloration similar to green but spotting pattern and the more orangish belly does not agree. Spines much to large (long) relative to body depth for typical green although that character is not good for me with fast growing young fish. I think fish stunted so that is not a problem here.
#9
Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:04 PM
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#10
Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:12 PM
#11
Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:20 PM
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#12
Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:23 PM
Out of curiosity, what exactly are you guys using to determine the hybrid status? I've heard color and shape so far, but would feel better about some meristics. I'm getting the impression that color and shape play a much greater role in identifying these than I realized.
I can't say much about meristics, but compare your fish to one of Ulands photos of a run of the mill green.
Lepomis cyanellus Green Sunfish 2000.jpg 43.61KB 12 downloads crazy green.png 715.08KB 9 downloads
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#13
Posted 15 January 2015 - 07:35 PM
Very difficult to say for sure though. Sorta seems like the kind of fish Isaac would conjure up in photoshop to mess with us!
Derek Wheaton
On a mountain overlooking the North Fork Roanoke River on one side, the New River Valley on the other, and a few minutes away from the James River watershed...the good life...
Enchanting Ectotherms
My Personal Facebook (mostly fish related, if you'd like to add me)
#14
Posted 15 January 2015 - 07:46 PM
The first: Green X Longear
The Second: Bluegill X Pumpkinseed (P-Seed more prominent)
The third: Green X Pumpkinseed.
Both the first and the third look incredibly stunning. In all seriousness, I'd be happy to buy one (or a half dozen) if you could ship to PA.
#15
Posted 15 January 2015 - 08:04 PM
Count it out. Dorsal spines vary by one.
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#16
Posted 15 January 2015 - 08:44 PM
I can't say much about meristics, but compare your fish to one of Ulands photos of a run of the mill green.
Lepomis cyanellus Green Sunfish 2000.jpg 43.61KB 12 downloads crazy green.png 715.08KB 9 downloads
Second fish is not a run of the mill green. Flank coloration is consistent with pumpkinseed and (pumpkinseed x green). The comparison with a redbreast hybrid I cannot refute because not seen such involving greens.
Zoozantheliae's last fish could involve pumpkin x bluegill which could help explain the large spines.
#17
Posted 15 January 2015 - 09:19 PM
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#18
Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:29 PM
#19
Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:47 PM
I see the the green. I don't seem to pick up the gibbosis. Can you or Brian expound on what you see?
The member formerly known as Skipjack
#20
Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:52 PM
The member formerly known as Skipjack
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