Round Goby

Does it look like even the smaller Neogobius can out-compete native species like yellow perch that would also make use of this extra territory?

Around here they are numerous enough to kick out most other benthic species. It is rare to find a Round goby colonized area that includes other species that utilize the same habitat componets. I tend to agree with the hypothesis that these fish are being selected for size given the habitat or maybe habitat ecology and this is why their size seems to be decreasing.

It should be noted however, that those we hold in captivity at the Nature Center do grow fairly large and it is not uncommon to take a 'dwarf' goby right out of the river and have it reach 5 inches in our tanks in no time.

Here are some more Lake Michigan round gobies of varying sizes for your enjoyment (sorry it's a little out of focus). The largest was about 6" SL and bursting with eggs. I'm amazed the seagulls managed to choke them down.

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Does it look like even the smaller Neogobius can out-compete native species like yellow perch that would also make use of this extra territory?

I don't know that even the large ones are in any sort of competition with yellow perch. Their functional niches really don't cross paths. Nor would the goby really have a handle to take advantage of the perch's broadcast spawning style. The species that have shown a significant impact fall into one or the other group.

Honestly, in terms of biomass, in any open lake and near shore trawling that I've seen, white perch are FAR more invasive than the goby. It amazes me that no one is studying the effects of this species. And they're actually a niche competitor of all the game species everyone wants.

I guess it goes back to why we have to use statistics to verify our work... Humans are horrible at probability.

Well, and then a lot of the true blue Bullet and Bobber ™ guys are horrible at statistics. (Did I say that out loud? ) And they're unfortunately, in charge of the research on these projects.

Todd

I don't know that even the large ones are in any sort of competition with yellow perch. Their functional niches really don't cross paths. Nor would the goby really have a handle to take advantage of the perch's broadcast spawning style. The species that have shown a significant impact fall into one or the other group.

Actually, there's a scientist at U-M named David Jude who is looking into interactions between round goby and young yellow perch. Although the yellow perch don't really occupy the same ecological niche as the round goby, the juvenile perch like to feed and "beef up" in areas where round goby have staked out territory. Ultimately, it is the goby that wins in most cases. It just goes to show what broad impacts these fish are having on Great Lakes ecosystems

Actually, there's a scientist at U-M named David Jude who is looking into interactions...

We're working with Dave, and there's a clarification to be made, so far as I know.

The goby wins in an aquarium. That is only a model.

I can argue that my variegate darters would have a negative effect on juvenile yellow perch (or any species), based on how they guard their rock spaces when I approach the aquarium.

So... I'm not convinced until they can show that lowered size class in perch is due to the presence of the gobies, and safely staying away from any auto correlation. This is a pain in the arse to do, as you can imagine.

This isn't a negative criticism of his work, I would hope he'd shoot my sucker facilitation full of holes just the same I also hope to get into the field with him soon to look at some of the situations they have up in the Flint River, and look to have him as a potential committee member if my projects steer toward his expertise, etc. In any case, he's a great guy to be around!

Todd

Bullet and Bobber ™ guys

Yes you did say that out loud! I thought you got into this hobby as a fisherman and sort of resembled a bullet and bobber type. I guess I'm curious about not only the definition of a "bullet and bobber type" but also what's with the trademark? Did you actually trademark that three word string?

The goby wins in an aquarium.

Thats a matter of opinion....

Yes you did say that out loud! I thought you got into this hobby as a fisherman and sort of resembled a bullet and bobber type. I guess I'm curious about not only the definition of a "bullet and bobber type" but also what's with the trademark? Did you actually trademark that three word string?

No I didn't, but it sure looks cool, doesn't it?

I am first and foremost, a fisherman. That is my lead into this hobby, and now career, and I have a great respect for those who realize that no resource they use can be maintained solely on bass and bluegill or walleye and perch. If anyone felt that I was being critical of fisherman, please understand that is NOT what I was saying, and I offer a sincere appology for even an ounce of blood boiling.

However, there are some, actually many, among the management bodies who think "Fisheries Diversity" means adding catfish (and not the Noturus kind) or muskies to their list of managed species.

One could argue that they're doing what the public wants most. But these are the same guys who put a good sized channel catfish into my buddy's large darter display because they were tired of looking at his "bait".

Todd

I for one am pretty sick of the Bassholes and Kisctchasses and there reign of terror..It would be nice to usurp a bit of funding from them for real biodiversity conservation...

I'm not really sorry if I offend anyone on that...

What is a Kisctchass? I can't be properly offended unless I know

What is a Kisctchass? I can't be properly offended unless I know

Think Oncorhynchus...Frankly I find just calling them coHO's offensive enough but that's even more inside than Kisutchass Biologists....

Edit: Oops..I just relized I spelled Kisutchass wrong... definitely hard to figure out when spelled wrong

I for one am pretty sick of the Bassholes and Kisctchasses and there reign of terror..It would be nice to usurp a bit of funding from them for real biodiversity conservation...

I'm not really sorry if I offend anyone on that...

It would be better if people like them stopped practicing catch and release on invasives.
How do we educate them to keep their fish?
True, most trout and salmon die anyway but bass are hardier...

It would be better if people like them stopped practicing catch and release on invasives.
How do we educate them to keep their fish?
True, most trout and salmon die anyway but bass are hardier...

People are scared they're going to get fined. In MI, it is illegal to possess live invasives like round gobies that you've captured. I guess you could kill whatever you catch on site, but most people I know like to keep fishing and wait until later to clean what they've caught. I just feed the gobies I catch to the seagulls on the pier. It seems like a waste, but I don't want to be hassled.

I see what you mean...
But I meant the other invasives like largemouth bass in the west and rainbows in the east. The people who fish for them ofcourse don't want their numbers to decline but how do we educate them to keep their fish?

I caught a half-dozen of these little turds with fins while fishing off a pier in Grand Haven, Michigan 10 days ago. They were big ones, too -- one was going on 4" at least.

If you go to Ludington, there isn't a place where you can't find them. I caught a 8" one on a spoon while fishing for pike. They are really annoying, and all the fish are afraid of them.

It should be noted however, that those we hold in captivity at the Nature Center do grow fairly large and it is not uncommon to take a 'dwarf' goby right out of the river and have it reach 5 inches in our tanks in no time.

George, can you post some photos of these gobies in the nature center tanks? I definitely understand why it's not legal/ethical to keep these guys in a tank and I wouldn't advocate it, but they look like a fun fish to have in a single species tank. Kind of like a huge darter or a hardy sculpin. Let us live vicariously through your permitted nature center tank!

Cheers, Jase

At a hunter check station here in Illinois, the Department of Natural Resources kept a small tank with a bunch of natives and 1 round goby. I wonder if the same rules for possession apply to them?

I was salmon fishing on Lake Michigan near Chicago June 18. One of the salmon we caught had 3 round gobies in its stomach. I thought that was interesting.

I hate gobies so much!!!!I went fishing at the pier in ludington and i caught over a dozen of those little peices of crap while fishing for rock bass and smallmouth bass!!!

UGH! If I had only known! I took my son to a small pond at a local park for blue gill and the 2nd fish we caught was a Goby. I thought it was a sculpin till i read about the fused pelvic fins that sculpin dont have. If I had known I would have fed him to the seagulls that were there.

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Thats the pond at State Road Park in Parma.

Now I just found this article on the Ohio DNR website also:

The round goby may pose a serious threat to North American water ecosystems, with potential impacts on sport and commercial fishing. Since its discovery in the St. Clair River in 1990, this bottom-dwelling fish has rapidly spread to many areas of the Great Lakes. Once established, populations typically increase quickly. The round goby can displace native fish, eat their eggs and young, take over optimal habitat, spawn multiple times a season, and survive in poor quality water---giving them a competitive advantage.

Anglers, commercial fishermen, and fishery professionals should know how to identify the round goby. Often, anglers are the first to discover round gobies because these aggressive fish are commonly caught by hook and line. Your help is vital to report new sightings and to prevent their spread.

What you can do

* Learn to identify the round goby
* Always drain water from your boat, livewell, and bilge before leaving any water access
* Always dispose of your unwanted bait on land
* Never dip your bait bucket into a lake or river if it has water in it from another
* Never dump live fish from one body of water into another

If you catch a round goby in Ohio waters (except Lake Erie), kill it, freeze it, and call the Ohio Division of Wildlife in Sandusky (419) 625-8062 or the Ohio Sea Grant Program in Columbus (614) 292-8949, or a local division office. Do not throw it back alive!

Reminder: Round goby specimens are needed to confirm sightings, but many jurisdictions have different rules regarding possesion and transport. Contact you local natural resouce management agency for instructions. Never transport a live goby.