Im relatively new to this whole posting thing, and looking for some help. I live in Florida, and have been blessed with an abundance of killifish. The only one that I'm having trouble even finding anything about is Pteronotropis welaka, or the Blue Nose Shiner. Does anyone know of a book or publication that references these beautiful fish? Or even better, a location where they may possibly be found? I've spent hours searching the internet with the only worthwhile results being the article by NANFA.
Pteronotropis welaka, The Blue Nose Shiner
Started by
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, Jun 14 2007 03:38 AM
55 replies to this topic
#2
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 14 June 2007 - 09:27 AM
Joseph, unfortunately P. welaka is one of those fish that is hard to come by and people aren't too willing to give out their locations. They are also listed as Special Concern in FL, which has no legal status, but they really should not be taken with that status.
#4
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 14 June 2007 - 05:17 PM
The Fishes of Alabama/Mississippi books give some basic info on them - also there is an article in A\C from a while back, I think.
In the meantime, look here. You can get a general idea of where to look, but like others have said, most serious enthusiasts don't give out welaka spots to people they don't know or aren't comfortable with. This is a sensitive and highly sought-after species. I know of two welaka holes that have been destroyed by human activity - in one case, by overcollecting.
In the meantime, look here. You can get a general idea of where to look, but like others have said, most serious enthusiasts don't give out welaka spots to people they don't know or aren't comfortable with. This is a sensitive and highly sought-after species. I know of two welaka holes that have been destroyed by human activity - in one case, by overcollecting.
#6
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Posted 15 June 2007 - 02:30 AM
Thanks for the info so far, If I could only find a few pairs, I would then try to breed them. If anyone is ever near St. Pete and looking for some of our less elusive species, let me know and I'll see what I can do! You can either message me, or call at the number below 24 hours a day. (my job hours vary a lot, and I'm subject to call in anyway)
#7
Guest_fishlvr_*
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Posted 15 June 2007 - 06:27 AM
Well, you would need more than the pairs to breed them. They are parasites of longear sunfish nests (from what I've read, no personal experience), so you would need a nice sized tank, depending on the subspecies of longear you got and the amount of bluenoses you had. Northern longears are the smallest subspecies, I believe. Also, there may be a chance of the longears eating the bluenoses, but I'm not sure.
#8
Guest_Irate Mormon_*
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Posted 15 June 2007 - 04:35 PM
Ahem, they were taken for a life-history study! Over 1000 specimens from this site. Why?who would take that many a friend of mine told me his spot in the panhandle but I would never take more than 3 or 4 if I ever go there
#10
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Posted 18 September 2007 - 05:53 PM
Hello...I know this is maybe crazy...but....I was looking at your question and some of the other comments and visited this pdf on this species. I am not familiar with this species, but after looking at the above pdf I was thinking that there might be some type of corrulation between this fish, the pdf approximate placement of this fish and the city of Welaka in South Putnam County. There are many small creeks there and some springs........I live within 30 minutes of the Welaka......Maybe some corrulation???Im relatively new to this whole posting thing, and looking for some help. I live in Florida, and have been blessed with an abundance of killifish. The only one that I'm having trouble even finding anything about is Pteronotropis welaka, or the Blue Nose Shiner. Does anyone know of a book or publication that references these beautiful fish? Or even better, a location where they may possibly be found? I've spent hours searching the internet with the only worthwhile results being the article by NANFA.
dweeks
pdf is at .....www.fnai.org/FieldGuide/pdf/Pteronotropis_welaka.pdf
#11
Guest_uniseine_*
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Posted 18 September 2007 - 08:47 PM
You need Northern Longear Sunfish.
I had 7 nice Welaka last summer in a 20 gallon long tank. They looked great, ate great. I checked for eggs over a dozen times. No luck.
I may try again next summer with a pond and Northern Longear Sunfish.
The trick to finding Pteronotopis welaka is not to be afraid of swampy areas. Find a swampy area in the panhandle, one with springs, and check in April and May.
I had 7 nice Welaka last summer in a 20 gallon long tank. They looked great, ate great. I checked for eggs over a dozen times. No luck.
I may try again next summer with a pond and Northern Longear Sunfish.
The trick to finding Pteronotopis welaka is not to be afraid of swampy areas. Find a swampy area in the panhandle, one with springs, and check in April and May.
#12
Guest_centrarchid_*
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Posted 19 September 2007 - 11:03 AM
You need Northern Longear Sunfish.
I had 7 nice Welaka last summer in a 20 gallon long tank. They looked great, ate great. I checked for eggs over a dozen times. No luck.
I may try again next summer with a pond and Northern Longear Sunfish.
The trick to finding Pteronotopis welaka is not to be afraid of swampy areas. Find a swampy area in the panhandle, one with springs, and check in April and May.
Could dollar sunfish be used instead of longear sunfish?
#13
Guest_dsmith73_*
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Posted 19 September 2007 - 03:14 PM
Could dollar sunfish be used instead of longear sunfish?
I have taken bluenose in a habitat that does not have longears at all. The majority of the sunfish were L. miniatus, with some macrochirus and gulosus, so it is definitely not necessary to have longears specifically.
#16
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Posted 19 September 2007 - 05:58 PM
I wouldn't expect to see dollars in welaka habitat, but hey, I see new stuff every day!
Would seem dollar a more likely candidate for natural associations with bluehead shiners than northern longear. I got some warmouth and I gotta see if they can be trusted with shiners when both in breeding mood. I thought warmouth are a major natural host?
#17
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Posted 19 September 2007 - 08:36 PM
I happened to sample an area with welaka just hours ago. Almost all the sunfish sampled were Lepomis punctatus and Micropterus salmoides. A few large gulosus and average size macrochirus were found as well. A fun day sampling 
#19
Guest_Mysteryman_*
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Posted 25 September 2007 - 09:32 AM
A correlation between Welaka, Florida and the Bluenose Shiner?
Well, the fish is named after that town, so yeah, I'd say there's a correlation.
However, the bluenose has been pretty much wiped out from the waters of the St. John's drainage and the east side of Florida, so good luck finding any near it's type location.
Longears are the "traditional" host for Bluenoses, but many other species work as well. In fact, Longears are nowhere to be found in many of the best welaka sites. The closest ones to my home ( that I can find ) seem to use warmouths.
I was able to spawn them once by using longear milt as a chemical stimulus. I haven't been able to replicate that feat by using the milt of other species, but I haven't made enough attempts yet to be able to say it doesn't work. I think it probably will work, actually, but I'm gonna have to start all over again.
Welakas tend to accumulate in areas which are not very accessible. Collecting them is a big pain, and finding them in the first place isn't especially easy either. This species is near-certainly more common than we give them credit for being, given the wide area of it's range and the vast acreage of perfect habitat which is almost impossible to reach to look for them. They haven't been recorded from my area in 53 years, but I'm pretty sure they're still around here someplace, and one of these days I might be able to find some.
Well, the fish is named after that town, so yeah, I'd say there's a correlation.
However, the bluenose has been pretty much wiped out from the waters of the St. John's drainage and the east side of Florida, so good luck finding any near it's type location.
Longears are the "traditional" host for Bluenoses, but many other species work as well. In fact, Longears are nowhere to be found in many of the best welaka sites. The closest ones to my home ( that I can find ) seem to use warmouths.
I was able to spawn them once by using longear milt as a chemical stimulus. I haven't been able to replicate that feat by using the milt of other species, but I haven't made enough attempts yet to be able to say it doesn't work. I think it probably will work, actually, but I'm gonna have to start all over again.
Welakas tend to accumulate in areas which are not very accessible. Collecting them is a big pain, and finding them in the first place isn't especially easy either. This species is near-certainly more common than we give them credit for being, given the wide area of it's range and the vast acreage of perfect habitat which is almost impossible to reach to look for them. They haven't been recorded from my area in 53 years, but I'm pretty sure they're still around here someplace, and one of these days I might be able to find some.
#20
Guest_uniseine_*
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Posted 25 September 2007 - 11:12 AM
A different way to find Welaka - the Jim Graham method.
Mysteryman,
Go collecting in Florida or Alabama in November or December. Collect in the nice streams that are outside the swamps / pools / lakes / springs. Keep all the stripy LSF's (little shiny fish). Raise the fish at home. Jim has found Welaka 3 times this way.
Note: Jim does not sell native fish; he is not a mercenary. Also, Jim still has fish from over 2 years ago. His house guests are frequently rewarded with a fishing trip to his basement.
"
Mysteryman,
Go collecting in Florida or Alabama in November or December. Collect in the nice streams that are outside the swamps / pools / lakes / springs. Keep all the stripy LSF's (little shiny fish). Raise the fish at home. Jim has found Welaka 3 times this way.
Note: Jim does not sell native fish; he is not a mercenary. Also, Jim still has fish from over 2 years ago. His house guests are frequently rewarded with a fishing trip to his basement.
"
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