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A Well-intentioned Friend Put Me In A Bind.


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#1 Guest_corvuscorax_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 01:38 AM

Like a lot of other people here, I like fishing for sport, as well as capturing/observing native fish.
I have hardly ever kept any natives for my aquariums (recently), in Maryland it's mighty hard to get a permit for that. (When I was younger, around 20 years ago, I kept a lot. That's an entirely differnt story, I want to be legal and ethical now.)
One of my fishin' buddies collects his own baitfish. He knows of my interest in natives, so the last time (2 weeks ago) he went to his lake cabin, he brought home a damn bucket full of small natives and gave them to me. This lake is a 4-5 hour drive from my house, I couldn't take them back.
So I now have a bunch of fish (25 or so) that I shouldn't legally have, and really shouldn't take back where they came from, they've been in tanks for 2 weeks.

I did stress to my friend that he shouldn't have done that and to never do it again.

I have 3 tanks with these little fellers in them.
A 45 gallon with some green sunfish and bluegill. and
A 20 gallon with a Pumpkinseed, a white crappie, and a baby bullhead.
An estimated 40 gallon 1/2 whiskey barrel (recycled plastic thing, meant for watergardening) with more small sunnies (mostly bluegills I think) and a couple golden shiners.

Most of the sunfish are around 1 inch, excep the Pumpkinseed 3 inches or so.
The shiners are 2-4 inches, the bullhead is around 2 inches, and the crappie is around 1 inch.

Thank goodness he didn't bring me the pickerel or walleye he caught!

In the long run I know I'm going to have to kill most of them. Can't take them back where they came from, won't release them anywhere else either, and there are way too many to keep in my tanks (never mind the fact that it's illegal).

#2 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 01:46 AM

The damage is done and at least you might be able to put the fish to good use. I know that some in these parts are looking for fish for public display and some for personal pleasure. If you can ship fishes, they can be put to good use. If you don't yet ship fishes....this seems like the perfect opportunity to learn.

#3 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 05:32 AM

The damage is done and at least you might be able to put the fish to good use. I know that some in these parts are looking for fish for public display and some for personal pleasure. If you can ship fishes, they can be put to good use. If you don't yet ship fishes....this seems like the perfect opportunity to learn.


Yeah, but if it's illegal to keep sport species, I imagine it's illegal to send them across the state line as well.

If I were in this situation, I'd be reaching for some clove oil after talking to the local nature center / park district to see if they have a use for them.

Todd

#4 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 10:28 AM

Golly Todd, I guess your right if possession is illegal. Assuming the fish are legally acquired, is it illegal to posses these fish in Maryland?

#5 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 11:15 AM

I'm not sure, I'm just going with what Mr. Corvus has said here. I took a moment to look at the Maryland Regulations, but there doesn't seem to be a clear document. If they were caught on hook and line, I'd say no one could really say hum about it, but other states may have laws surrounding the transportation of live fish.

However, it seems they were caught with a seine, which as you know, is a black and white realm in most Divisions that many of us, in many cases, treat as gray :) This is what I think he's mostly worried about.

Todd

#6 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 02:34 PM

I guess we'd have to know which state they came from. Also I wonder if it's a private lake and the laws regarding collecting in private waters of that particular state.

#7 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 07:43 PM

So I now have a bunch of fish (25 or so) that I shouldn't legally have, and really shouldn't take back where they came from, they've been in tanks for 2 weeks.



I HATE it when that happens :-) What to do, what to do? :roll:

#8 Guest_Scenicrivers_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 07:46 PM

I HATE it when that happens :-) What to do, what to do? :roll:



I've never done it but maybe a deep fryer would solve your problem, they might make a good snack. :shock:

#9 Guest_corvuscorax_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 10:16 PM

I may get ripped for this, but I'm keeping them for now.

Collected at Deep Creek Lake, Western MD, with a cast net. A few came from a fish trap.

I have my own watergarden/pond, around 2,500 gallons, currently only has goldfish. The goldfish numbers have been dwindling the past couple years, courtesy of the local wildlife (herons mostly, both Great Blue and Little Green), plus other predators, maybe raccoons.

In about a month it will be time to do autumn pond cleaning, I'll take the opportunity to catch & kill the remaining goldies.
I'm going to try to keep the natives in tanks over the winter, I'm sure they won't all make it. The bullhead is history very soon, Trying to keep a bullhead is something I'm not interested in, it's already a pig, will get too big too fast.
I don't do clove oil or freezing, a sharp knife and off with his head. Same for the goldfish. Plenty humane in my book.

Come spring I'll put some of the surviving sunnies in the pond, the rest will be history. I've lost a couple already, they won't all make it til spring. I'm a very experienced aquarist, will do my best to keep them in good conditions.

I really think MD DNR has better things to do than to come knocking on my door.

...talking to the local nature center / park district to see if they have a use for them.


There's something I hadn't thought of, I will give that a try. Perhaps the National Aquarium in Baltimore too. If I could give them to a place like that, I'd be satisfied.

#10 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 10:32 PM

I may get ripped for this, but I'm keeping them for now.



Hey, waddya gonna do? Realistically, nobody is gonna bust your door down. You're making the best of a bad situation. I'm not in the "better dead than red" camp, personally.

(official disclaimer): My opinion does not represent that of NANFA, nor the moderators of this forum. Neither do I advocate wholesale disregard of local laws.

#11 Michael Wolfe

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 08:00 PM

Your not foolin' me... I know you... and you do in fact support a certain level of anarchy that may not quite be, but is nearing wholesale disregard.

Hey, waddya gonna do? Realistically, nobody is gonna bust your door down. You're making the best of a bad situation. I'm not in the "better dead than red" camp, personally.

(official disclaimer): My opinion does not represent that of NANFA, nor the moderators of this forum. Neither do I advocate wholesale disregard of local laws.


Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

#12 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 09:35 PM

Your not foolin' me... I know you... and you do in fact support a certain level of anarchy that may not quite be, but is nearing wholesale disregard.


Well, (blush blush) anarchist that I am, I DID think Ole Yeller got his just desserts!

#13 Guest_farmertodd_*

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Posted 04 September 2007 - 11:02 PM

I really think MD DNR has better things to do than to come knocking on my door.


I also think this is the most rational conclusion to this story. Mistakes happen... once. We'll send out our NANFA Goon Squad if your friend brings them home again :)

Todd

#14 Guest_hmt321_*

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 06:41 AM

SHHHHH.... The NSP (Nanfa Secret Police) are watching!!!!

I have some rare video of them in action, I heard they killed the guy who filmed this!!!!

NSP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#15 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 07:30 AM

though some of us on the board do work for MD DNR 8-[

It is a crappy position that you were put in. If they came from Deep Creek Lake isn't that also a state park?

Yes I will agree, and many other do as well, that regulations here can be a bit on the excessive side. Yet there are non-natives showing up monthly it seems. So whatdya going to do? Get's back to the advocating again that sooner or later we are going to have to do as states clamp down on possession of bait. There is also that void again of the well intentioned responsible naturalist that isn't going to be able to get a scientific permit, and somewhat rightly so. Good luck being one person trying to convince the person in charge of MD permits too. He isn't a fan of all of this kind of stuff in general.

I'd really just stick to the simplest solution for you which is euthanize the fish. The crappie especially is a no-no because of the size limit. Everything else is a dime a dozen. Sucks to sound so cruel about it, but the collection and subsequent killing of some sunfish and golden shiners is a drop in the bucket for them.

#16 Guest_corvuscorax_*

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Posted 05 September 2007 - 08:35 AM

Thanks everyone. I spoke to Mr. Baitfish again last evening, he won't ever do that again.

The crappie especially is a no-no because of the size limit.


But he's the coolest one! I've been busting my butt collecting tiny live critters these fish will eat (some are acclimating quickly to freeze-dried tubifex), and the crappie was not too interested in skeeter larvae or other tiny wiggly things.
So I bought a couple bucks worth of feeder guppies (I like to call them "Gulppies"), man, he came to life! The other fish with him were failing to catch anything 3/4 of the time. Mr. Crappie nailed one every attempt. Made the other fish look like clumsy oxen.

After work today I have to cull this group, there are just too damn many! most of the bluegill/greenies are going, along with the bullhead. I already put the shiners in my pond.

Don't be surprised if I just don't discuss the remaining fish anymore. 8)

#17 Guest_Zephead4747_*

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 09:40 PM

I'd make sure to keep 3-4 of green and bluegill+ the crappie. In a 2500 gallon pond why not keep the bullhead. He'll clean up dead fish for you.

#18 Guest_dataguru_*

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 07:22 PM

In about a month it will be time to do autumn pond cleaning, I'll take the opportunity to catch & kill the remaining goldies.


I can't believe I'm reading this.
Why is that any different than: I'm tired of my dog, cat, horse, etc. so I'll just kill it.
It shouldn't be different.

Why not rehome them?




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