For those of you interested in Grass Pike (vermi variety), there are alot of people in this forum that believe a 55 gallon is the minimum size tank.
My pike has been thriving in a 30 gallon long. And my pike is full grown.
I think 30 gallon long is a perfect sized aquarium to house one adult grass pike.
M.
Grass Pike Aquarium Size
Started by
Guest_esoxandlepomislover_*
, Sep 08 2007 08:54 PM
33 replies to this topic
#5
Guest_sandtiger_*
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Posted 08 September 2007 - 11:26 PM
He dosen't look full grown to me though he is a very nice looking fish. I have no doubt that you can keep one in a 30g Long (aren't the dimensions the same as for a 55g only shorter?) but it's not something I would want to do or suggest, especially to newbs. A 12" fish produces a lot of waste, it's much easier to keep up with the water quality in a 55g.
#6
Guest_esoxandlepomislover_*
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 12:20 AM
The tank is designed to handle heavy loads. The dense plant growth and huge bio-filter handle it with ease. Back in the day, I had an oscar and pleco, both of which were over 12 inches in that same 30 gallon tank. I had them for years and maintained excellent water quality with an Emperor Bio-Wheel and every other week water change. There were no plants, so I would disagree that a newb couldn't do a grass pike in a 30 gallon with a similar arrangement.
I am far from a grass pike expert, but this is an 8 inch specimen. I have been fishing well over 30 years, and grass pike over 10 inches, in my honest opinion, are a rare specimen indeed.
The 30 gallon could easily handle the extra 2 inches in growth.
Here is the light fixture....
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks for your kind comments.
And thanks to mishmosh, who is my plant consultant and fishing buddy.
M.
I am far from a grass pike expert, but this is an 8 inch specimen. I have been fishing well over 30 years, and grass pike over 10 inches, in my honest opinion, are a rare specimen indeed.
The 30 gallon could easily handle the extra 2 inches in growth.
Here is the light fixture....
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks for your kind comments.
And thanks to mishmosh, who is my plant consultant and fishing buddy.
M.
#8
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:41 AM
The tank is designed to handle heavy loads. The dense plant growth and huge bio-filter handle it with ease. Back in the day, I had an oscar and pleco, both of which were over 12 inches in that same 30 gallon tank. I had them for years and maintained excellent water quality with an Emperor Bio-Wheel and every other week water change. There were no plants, so I would disagree that a newb couldn't do a grass pike in a 30 gallon with a similar arrangement.
I am far from a grass pike expert, but this is an 8 inch specimen. I have been fishing well over 30 years, and grass pike over 10 inches, in my honest opinion, are a rare specimen indeed.
The 30 gallon could easily handle the extra 2 inches in growth.
Here is the light fixture....
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks for your kind comments.
And thanks to mishmosh, who is my plant consultant and fishing buddy.
M.
An oscar and pleco in a 30g tank? I cannot imagine. I am curious if you test your water at all, specifically for nitrates and what your average readings are. I am also wondering how long your oscar and pleco lived, you say "years" but that can mean many things.
#9
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 12:35 PM
I had them for 5 years.
I then had to move out of country and so they were given to a colleague (and placed in a bigger tank).
Sadly, I don't know their fate from there on.
As for testing, I am not a firm believer of doing it once you know the fundamentals of tank tending and have developed experience. When I was a newb, I would do it all the time. Bottom line, I know how to manage the "BIG UGLIES" of aquariums. I have been doing it for over 25 years.
My formula for success is well documented (believe it or not).
As an aside, I did recently buy a pH meter so I could titrate my C02 upto the highest rate to keep the pH just over 6.2. I spent 5 bucks on this device. So I am not completely immune to testing water, but I only do it when it is clinically indicated. Or if I have a specific goal in mind.
I can tell you one thing, the oscar and pleco were pristine and healthy. Not one problem in 5 years. Excellent respiration rates, excellent behavior and coloration....My only conclusion is healthy and pristine water.
I am a firm believer of the "sniff" test....it is free and comes with experience....and it is a huge indicator of tank health. My friend and colleague (mishmosh) mastered this technique while we were in medical school.
M.
I then had to move out of country and so they were given to a colleague (and placed in a bigger tank).
Sadly, I don't know their fate from there on.
As for testing, I am not a firm believer of doing it once you know the fundamentals of tank tending and have developed experience. When I was a newb, I would do it all the time. Bottom line, I know how to manage the "BIG UGLIES" of aquariums. I have been doing it for over 25 years.
My formula for success is well documented (believe it or not).
As an aside, I did recently buy a pH meter so I could titrate my C02 upto the highest rate to keep the pH just over 6.2. I spent 5 bucks on this device. So I am not completely immune to testing water, but I only do it when it is clinically indicated. Or if I have a specific goal in mind.
I can tell you one thing, the oscar and pleco were pristine and healthy. Not one problem in 5 years. Excellent respiration rates, excellent behavior and coloration....My only conclusion is healthy and pristine water.
I am a firm believer of the "sniff" test....it is free and comes with experience....and it is a huge indicator of tank health. My friend and colleague (mishmosh) mastered this technique while we were in medical school.
M.
#11
Guest_esoxandlepomislover_*
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 02:24 PM
The fish are located in Wisconsin.
I fish by myself most of the time, so I find it easier to fish with a crappie pole and mini-tube jig (1/32oz red/white). I fish backwater of ponds, lakes, streams, creeks, and ditches (highly vegetated.)
Just skitter the bait in areas where you think the fish are located.
I am sure there are posts to tell you where they are in Wisconsin.
Also try a web search.....
The folks at NANFA are helpful.
I know you can buy them, but what fun is that. You will be more satisfied if you do it yourself. Also, you will learn a ton being out in the field.
M.
I fish by myself most of the time, so I find it easier to fish with a crappie pole and mini-tube jig (1/32oz red/white). I fish backwater of ponds, lakes, streams, creeks, and ditches (highly vegetated.)
Just skitter the bait in areas where you think the fish are located.
I am sure there are posts to tell you where they are in Wisconsin.
Also try a web search.....
The folks at NANFA are helpful.
I know you can buy them, but what fun is that. You will be more satisfied if you do it yourself. Also, you will learn a ton being out in the field.
M.
#12
Guest_teleost_*
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 06:45 PM
For those of you interested in Grass Pike (vermi variety), there are alot of people in this forum that believe a 55 gallon is the minimum size tank.
My pike has been thriving in a 30 gallon long. And my pike is full grown.
I think 30 gallon long is a perfect sized aquarium to house one adult grass pike.
Just to stick my nose where it doesn't belong.....
Many newcomers ask for an opinion of the minimum tank size to keep a particular fish happy. Please keep in mind these are opinions and nothing more. I'm certain a Grass pickerel can be kept inside a tank with a 48" x 13" footprint but you have to ask yourself if it's cramped and if this is what you want for your fishes. This year alone I've caught several wild fish over 10" and a few at the 12" size. Fish this size aren't uncommon at all.
I know of some friends that have keep Grass pickerel inside 55 gallon tanks (also 48" X 13" footprint), when they bump the fish to a larger tank, I've always heard of a growth spurt. I'm not trying to say a 48" X 13" footprint isn't acceptable for a fish that will reach a foot. I'll bet you could keep a grass pickerel in a 20 gallon but I'd personally not advise doing so. I'm of the personal opinion that it's a good idea to have the minimum footprint of the tank exceed the maximum length of a fish by a greater margin than an inch. I like the 1.5 times rule of thumb. This is just me and I know many disagree. My feelings on this issue have to do with allowing natural movements and growth of the fish and nothing more.
Your tank looks great and so does your grass pickerel.
#13
Guest_sandtiger_*
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 06:56 PM
I had them for 5 years.
I then had to move out of country and so they were given to a colleague (and placed in a bigger tank).
Sadly, I don't know their fate from there on.
As for testing, I am not a firm believer of doing it once you know the fundamentals of tank tending and have developed experience. When I was a newb, I would do it all the time. Bottom line, I know how to manage the "BIG UGLIES" of aquariums. I have been doing it for over 25 years.
My formula for success is well documented (believe it or not).
As an aside, I did recently buy a pH meter so I could titrate my C02 upto the highest rate to keep the pH just over 6.2. I spent 5 bucks on this device. So I am not completely immune to testing water, but I only do it when it is clinically indicated. Or if I have a specific goal in mind.
I can tell you one thing, the oscar and pleco were pristine and healthy. Not one problem in 5 years. Excellent respiration rates, excellent behavior and coloration....My only conclusion is healthy and pristine water.
I am a firm believer of the "sniff" test....it is free and comes with experience....and it is a huge indicator of tank health. My friend and colleague (mishmosh) mastered this technique while we were in medical school.
M.
I'm sorry but I don't consider 5 years a long time for fish that can live over 15 years. Nitrates damage fish in ways you cannot see and an extended period of time in elevated nitrates can do serious long term damage to fish, this includes a shorter lifespan. I cannot imagine what the level of nitrates were in your 30g with an adult oscar and plecostomus. When I give advice to people about keeping fish I do so with the intention of helping their fish thrive, not survive. You say your fish thrive but you honestly cannot tell me that is the case as nitrate damage is often internal and you didn't keep the fish for even half their expected lifespans and from the sounds of it you don't even test for nitrates. As for the "sniff" test, you cannot smell nitrates.
#15
Guest_esoxandlepomislover_*
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 09:55 PM
There are many opinions. Certainly, I have never had any single fish for 15 years, so my standards differ from yours. I think 5 years is a very good time frame.
Testing nitrates is not necessary for me (after 25 years of tending aquariums). Watching your fish clinically is very important. It is easy to determine stress by watching the fish's behavior. Certainly, fish with clinically harmful levels of toxins show stress/illness or even die. I can't explain adequately how a fish that behaves so peaceful, grows to a very good size, and has such beautiful coloration is being subjected to sub-lethal doses of nitrates that lead to a slow and chronic demise/illness. That is a little bit hard for me to grasp.
Some people display more compulsion than others when tending fish...and that is OK. I am just not wound that tight.
As far as the "sniff" test....well that is an art form all unto itself.
M.
Testing nitrates is not necessary for me (after 25 years of tending aquariums). Watching your fish clinically is very important. It is easy to determine stress by watching the fish's behavior. Certainly, fish with clinically harmful levels of toxins show stress/illness or even die. I can't explain adequately how a fish that behaves so peaceful, grows to a very good size, and has such beautiful coloration is being subjected to sub-lethal doses of nitrates that lead to a slow and chronic demise/illness. That is a little bit hard for me to grasp.
Some people display more compulsion than others when tending fish...and that is OK. I am just not wound that tight.
As far as the "sniff" test....well that is an art form all unto itself.
M.
#16
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Posted 09 September 2007 - 10:29 PM
Just something I have to say..
Personally, I have to start off by saying, that the pickerel and tank are very nice to begin with.
But for most, I would also suggest starting off with a tank around 55 gallons in size. While they "can" be kept in that size tank, it may not be the best.
My friend keeps a full grown oscar in a 15 gallon high. It "fits," but is it extremely healthy or happy? Probably not in the long run.
I've never kept a pickerel personally, but I have kept Muskie, Northerns, etc. and they're somewhat notorious around here, for ending up dead a few days after acclimating them to a tank. Not because of ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates; but because of being kept in a smaller tank. I know of one person who's had multiple pike, at least similar to a pickerel, ram themselves into the glass repeatedly, when kept in smaller tanks. Bluntly, they seem to be stressed, skittish, and bored when confined.
While they may not be an active fish compared to most, they can have the opportunity during feeding, etc.
I also keep Needlenose Fish (which are similar in habits) that have the possibility of reaching a foot. While they "can be" kept in a 30g for life, i've seen much improvement in their health, habits, etc. when moved into a larger tank. All around, it gives them more space, which equals a more capable fish.
Most might not be "quick to say it," but long-lived fish aren't necessarily "always" a very healthy specimen. I have many cases of this, such as my aunt's 20+ year old Koi, that had grown over two feet, was kept in a 55g with no water changes, and barely fed.
Hopefully that made some sense, seeing as i'm extremely tired
But, I have to say it again, that the pickerel does look very nice!
Personally, I have to start off by saying, that the pickerel and tank are very nice to begin with.
But for most, I would also suggest starting off with a tank around 55 gallons in size. While they "can" be kept in that size tank, it may not be the best.
My friend keeps a full grown oscar in a 15 gallon high. It "fits," but is it extremely healthy or happy? Probably not in the long run.
I've never kept a pickerel personally, but I have kept Muskie, Northerns, etc. and they're somewhat notorious around here, for ending up dead a few days after acclimating them to a tank. Not because of ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates; but because of being kept in a smaller tank. I know of one person who's had multiple pike, at least similar to a pickerel, ram themselves into the glass repeatedly, when kept in smaller tanks. Bluntly, they seem to be stressed, skittish, and bored when confined.
While they may not be an active fish compared to most, they can have the opportunity during feeding, etc.
I also keep Needlenose Fish (which are similar in habits) that have the possibility of reaching a foot. While they "can be" kept in a 30g for life, i've seen much improvement in their health, habits, etc. when moved into a larger tank. All around, it gives them more space, which equals a more capable fish.
Most might not be "quick to say it," but long-lived fish aren't necessarily "always" a very healthy specimen. I have many cases of this, such as my aunt's 20+ year old Koi, that had grown over two feet, was kept in a 55g with no water changes, and barely fed.
Hopefully that made some sense, seeing as i'm extremely tired
But, I have to say it again, that the pickerel does look very nice!
#19
Guest_esoxandlepomislover_*
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Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:41 AM
From my original post, my only contention is that a 30 Long is not a compromise but rather a viable option to raise one grass pike in an exceptional environment. It is an opinion, and it is to offer some flexibility to those who are considering a grass pike. That is all. I used the oscar/pleco example to demonstrate (even under sub-optimal conditions) that one could maintain healthy water.
I am an experienced fish tender, but I am certainly no professional.
I will stick with the 30 gallon and keep you posted.
In the meantime, I would love to see pics of those posh 12 inch grass vermi-pike out there.
M.
I am an experienced fish tender, but I am certainly no professional.
I will stick with the 30 gallon and keep you posted.
In the meantime, I would love to see pics of those posh 12 inch grass vermi-pike out there.
M.
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