Breeding Okefenokee Pygmy Sunfish

Hi,

I got 8 okefenokees about 3 weeks ago and I'm hoping they will breed for me. They are housed in a heavily planted 20g with a large piece of driftwood and lots of java moss. It is filtered by a sponge filter. They seem to be doing really well and one of the males has claimed a spot for his own. He is quite dark almost black with blue bars and is hovering around his place flaring and chasing off other fish. He's been doing this for about 1 week and 1/2 or so. Also at least 2 of the females look really fat like they're carrying eggs maybe? But so far they haven't spawned or laid eggs.

When I got them I had the temp at about 72F and I've been slowly increasing it so it's now about 77F. They are eating microworms and frozen bloodworms well.

Any ideas about how to get them to breed?

Irene

Canadiangirl,
You are giving them exactly what they need. Be patient. Keep scanning around the java moss and eventually you'll see tiny fry. Make sure the current isn't too strong.

Also, I have found it easier to raise these fry when I had a culture of greenwater going. Everyday, I squirted a little greenwater into the tank. All you need to do is take some of your tank water, put it in a jar, and place in a window with strong light.

There is not any current at all in there, just a bit of bubbling from the sponge filter. As for green water, I've tried the tank water in the window with no success but I have some liquid food for my filter feeding shrimp called roti-rich. Maybe that would be ok? Should I keep the temp at 77F or is that too high? I just started a whiteworm and a gammarus culture so hopefully soon I'll have some live food for them. It'll be so cool if I could get a colony going, Ottawa needs more interesting fish available!

Boil a lettuce leaf for a few minutes and put the water in a container by the window with the leaf in it. You'll have green water in a couple days.

The male may be guarding eggs. I'm not sure, but I think they guard their eggs. Not a real expert on these fish. Your females are likely very ripe with the raise in temp. After you start feeding live foods, they should start breeding. For some reason, IME, worms of any kind seem to put animals in general in the "breeding mood".

Canadiangirl,
You are giving them exactly what they need. Be patient. Keep scanning around the java moss and eventually you'll see tiny fry. Make sure the current isn't too strong.

Also, I have found it easier to raise these fry when I had a culture of greenwater going. Everyday, I squirted a little greenwater into the tank. All you need to do is take some of your tank water, put it in a jar, and place in a window with strong light.

I agree about the conditions you are giving them.
As for feeding you could use tetra fry food as long as you pulverize it a little more. Eventually you will need to supply them with some sort of live food to increase your success with growth rates. This will give you time to get your green water going.
Good luck

Yes, those conditions sound great. The fry should find enough food to get them over the hump on the plants and in the gravel.

Your male may be just gaurding a preferred spawning site, however, it sounds like they may have already spawned. The eggs are not real tiny ( if you have seen killifish eggs, they are bigger than some, smaller than others) clear, and stuck to the whatever the male is gaurding and some may have tumbled down to the substrate.

The fry are very tiny at first, like a shard of glass with two black spots ( as seen from above) that are their eyes. In a month you should see small fish that look similar to the adults but more elongate with smaller fins and tan to brown color.

Feeding some new hatched brine shrimp at this time they will show up when their bellies turn bright pink/orange. Microworms will work well too since you are feeding them to the adults. Their bellies will take a white cast on and make them more noticable. Another trick to try in a few weeks. Go in after lights out for a while, and shine a small pen light around in the tank. You might find the fry much easier doing this.

Ripe females will be huge in the belly usually, and have an orange coloration showing through, or tan or pink. I never seen my pygmies of any specie actually spawn, and never noticed "empty" females, but the fry would show up.

As mentioned before, current is bad. A light bubbling from a foam filter is perfect. Just enough to disturb the surface to prevent stagnation.

Sounds like you are doing everything right and in a few months should be ahead several okee's.

IME, worms of any kind seem to put animals in general in the "breeding mood".

High protein content. That's why mosquitios suck blood (only the females) though.

So I finally saw a couple of tiny fry in there this morning. For a second and now they're hiding again. I think I can see what looks like a cluster of eggs, they look different than the numerous pond snail eggs in there. Should I remove them? I don't have another heater to put on a fry tank so they would be at around 70F The main tank is 76F now. I'm feeding the adults live blackworms so hopefully they won't eat all the fry.

So I finally saw a couple of tiny fry in there this morning. For a second and now they're hiding again. I think I can see what looks like a cluster of eggs, they look different than the numerous pond snail eggs in there. Should I remove them? I don't have another heater to put on a fry tank so they would be at around 70F The main tank is 76F now. I'm feeding the adults live blackworms so hopefully they won't eat all the fry.

I have never seen the adults eat any of the fry so they should be fine with out removing them.
Congrats on the breeding. Have fun growing them up

Don't remove the eggs. Keep the adults well fed. This is the best approach. As mentioned before the adults normally leave the fry alone. Pulling the eggs out and trying to incubate and raise them is less succesful. If the adults are well fed and you are worried about the fry, try raising some green water to feed them until they take newly hatched brine shrimp, or microworms.

I have found with many smaller species of fish, fry raised with the adults grow bigger more quickly and healthier. Maybe the adults cull the weak young? Not for certain, but it sure seems that way.

In my experience, unlike killifish eggs, Elassoma eggs are soft and fragile and don't take to removal and incubation very well anyways. Besides, tiny pygmy sunfish are well equipped to fend for themselves. You are lucky to have seen them, either you have tons of young, or were lucky. They normally don't show themselves until they start to mature which is one third the adult size.

The surprise the first time I had a spawn, only to find nearly adult fish 1/3 the size of the parents in the tank!

Long overdue update! So from the first batch of fry only about 5 survived. I did not see more babies in there for a very long time even the the males were almost constantly in breeding colours. So not sure if they weren't breeding or if none of the fry were surviving. But last week I saw about 10 very tiny fry! The only time I can see them is first thing when I turn on the lights. They will be hanging out along the glass then they quickly dart away and hide. Hopefully i get more survivers this time.

Long overdue update! So from the first batch of fry only about 5 survived. I did not see more babies in there for a very long time even the the males were almost constantly in breeding colours. So not sure if they weren't breeding or if none of the fry were surviving. But last week I saw about 10 very tiny fry! The only time I can see them is first thing when I turn on the lights. They will be hanging out along the glass then they quickly dart away and hide. Hopefully i get more survivers this time.

Are you using gravel or sand? The reason I ask is because I will be doing sand just so the babies don't get stuck in the gravel.

Congrats~!

NV

WOW breeding sunfish. It never even occurred to me but really has me intrigued. Canadiangirl where are you located??? I'm guessing in the US in order to get those particular sunfish.

Yeah - we can't see where she's from in her profile

Sorry Ed, Michael. Beat you to that one.

I am in Ottawa, ON. I use an fine gravel for substrate and i don't ever vacuum it. I'm not sure if babies are getting stuck or not. I have never seen eggs or larva, just the fry.

Canadiancray:

I had my sunnies shipped up last fall from:

http://www.aquaculturestore.com/

It's taken them a while to really get breeding but hopefully I'll have some for sale this fall. I have seen you on other forums, I also keep several shrimps and a bunch of different crays.

I would really like to see the pygmy sunnies become available in Canada. They are a really beautiful fish. The males are almost black with bright blue bands when breeding.

Thank you VERY much for the link. I have been looking for a place exactly like that. How was the shipping cross border??

Thank you VERY much for the link. I have been looking for a place exactly like that. How was the shipping cross border??

It was $90 fedex. Paul, the owner would not guarantee they would make it allive or arrive at all. He said there was a chance they would get turned back at the border so it was completely at my own risk. But they turned up 2 days later no problems.

I am considering ordering again if he's still willing to ship. I'd like to try breeding darters. I'm considering trying to breed to local ones first though to see how successful I am, as they are free.

It was $90 fedex. Paul, the owner would not guarantee they would make it allive or arrive at all. He said there was a chance they would get turned back at the border so it was completely at my own risk. But they turned up 2 days later no problems.

I am considering ordering again if he's still willing to ship. I'd like to try breeding darters. I'm considering trying to breed to local ones first though to see how successful I am, as they are free.

Cool. Whenever I order from the US I have them drop shipped to a UPS depot just across the border then make a day out of it & go pick them up myself.

awesome I found someone who is bringing me 4 pairs to the American Killifish COnvention next week.

Are you getting okefenokee's? You'll like them, the males are constantly on display and flaring for the females. I don't know what I'll do with the fry when it comes time for selling though, there is really no market for them here in Ottawa. Well, that is a ways away they are very small and slow growing.