Live foods: Feeder fish

Hi All,

With the goal of keeping some grass/redfin pickerel this summer, I'm trying to get set up with raising some kind of feeder fish. I've been trying gambusia with absolutely no success for quite a few months now -- see my thread at http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=4229.

Other frequently-used species I've considered are:

• feeder guppies (livebearers)
• fathead minnows / rosy reds (egg layers)

Less-often used species I've heard mentioned but would like to learn more about are:

• Limia perugiae (livebearers) http://fishbase.org/...ry.php?ID=27711
• Common goodeid, Ilyodon furcidens (livebearers) http://www.aquarticl..._furcidens.html, http://www.aquarticl..._furcidens.html
• zebrafish / zebra danio (egg layers) http://www.neuro.uor...u/k12/FAQs.html
• white cloud mountain minnow, Tanichthys albonubes (egg layers) http://www.aquarticl...whitecloud.html

My goal in all of this is to raise a substantial number of fish with the lowest amount of effort possible. I'd definitely prefer not to have to bother with feeding extremely tiny fry (and the several stages of different foods they often require), so I'm more drawn to the livebearers. But... I'd also prefer not to need to heat (although it's not that big of a deal if I have to.)

Can folks share their experience with these, especially the less common ones? There was some discussion of this topic on another thread earlier this year: http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=3488. However, there weren't many details shared about these less common species. Other species not listed here that I should consider?

Thanks in advance for any help.

-Jase

Edited by jase, 22 March 2008 - 10:20 AM.

I haven't kept them myself, but I understand that convict cichlids are easy and dependable producers of large quantities of young.

Then try Variatus, Feeder Platy or Molly. They are easy to breed and are bigger than feeder guppies. Maybe even fancy guppies. Just put them in outdoor tubs and they will quickly overpopulated the tub. Swordtails are okay but like gambusia, they eat their fry very often.

Another fish I hasn't mentioned in other forum is desert goby, they are breeding madly than guppies and are very much hardier than feeder guppies, through they are not livebearers.

Red cherry shrimp are another good choice.

But I would recommend the platies.

I would agree with both Nate and Butch.
I can certainly vouch for convicts being totally reliable, super productive and virtually without effort as breeders. Anyone who's ever kept a healthy pair has had to resort to using the fry as feeders as there's no way to stop them from breeding and they're impossible to get rid of. Zero care is required. The parents stay in breeding trim on flake food alone and both parents care for the young which take powdered flake as first food and are big enough for BBS.

I can also personally vouch for both variatus platies and P. sphenops [wild form of the small mollies]. I kept colonies of both in 30 gallon planted tanks and both colonies were perpetually self renewing on just flake food and the algae that grew natually. In addition, both species are beautiful, produce a variety of colors, effortless to care for and full of personality. I will say though that you'd need a pretty big tank loaded with adults if you needed large quantity of feeders.

Having said all that, I really doubt it is economical or convienient to raise your own feeders if you have several large pickeral or bass unless you used a pond or two. If you assign a dollar figure to your time, effort and recources, I think you'd find buying feeders more economical. I realize your motive is more than just cost driven so it may still be worth it.
You won't regret keeping any of the species mentioned above, they are all excellent, fun, attractive fish in their own right.

Edited by mikez, 22 March 2008 - 04:38 PM.

Just to throw another tropical into the mix,

You can raise THOUSANDS of paradise fish in shallow ponds (1 foot deep) in the warmer months. These ponds are also fine for raising aquatic plants. Or is it the other way 'round?

Paradise fish do not overwinter well - they have to be moved indoors or into a greenhouse.

Just to throw another tropical into the mix,
You can raise THOUSANDS of paradise fish in shallow ponds (1 foot deep) in the warmer months. These ponds are also fine for raising aquatic plants. Or is it the other way 'round?
Paradise fish do not overwinter well - they have to be moved indoors or into a greenhouse.

Hmm... there's a suggestion I haven't heard before. I take it you've done this before? The breeding setup sounds pretty easy: http://www.aquarticl...Labyrinth2.html

I should keep mentioning my location (Vermont) when I post this kind of stuff. Our outdoor pond season is seriously limited: http://www.victoryse...m/frost/vt.html

I would agree with both Nate and Butch.
I can certainly vouch for convicts being totally reliable, super productive and virtually without effort as breeders. Anyone who's ever kept a healthy pair has had to resort to using the fry as feeders as there's no way to stop them from breeding and they're impossible to get rid of. Zero care is required. The parents stay in breeding trim on flake food alone and both parents care for the young which take powdered flake as first food and are big enough for BBS.

Excellent. I guess the fact that they're among the only fish you see breeding successfully in the tanks at even a chain LFS should be a tip-off that very little effort is required. I'll try it.

Having said all that, I really doubt it is economical or convienient to raise your own feeders if you have several large pickeral or bass unless you used a pond or two. If you assign a dollar figure to your time, effort and recources, I think you'd find buying feeders more economical. I realize your motive is more than just cost driven so it may still be worth it.

Economical probably not, but much more fun and less risk of introducing disease than buying them from the LFS. I'm planning to keep piscivores to just a pickerel or two, so I'm thinking I can probably keep up with that.

Thanks for the tips! -Jase

I should keep mentioning my location (Vermont) when I post this kind of stuff.

Oh yeah. Well, you're pretty much SOL then

I haven't kept them myself, but I understand that convict cichlids are easy and dependable producers of large quantities of young.

I have kept them for this purpose, and I will confirm. Yes, indeed, convict cichlids breed like cockroaches and just about thrive on neglect. I have had them pair off and lay eggs in the growout tank, so they mature at a very small size. Keep a male and female in a 10 gallon tank, with just enough furniture and maybe plants in the tank to keep them feeling secure. Give them a small pot on its side to lay eggs on, and replace it with a fresh one when they are done laying. You don't have to remove the eggs, as the parents are very good with their young, but it does keep production up. Keep a small air stone near the eggs to keep them oxygenated, and use hydrogen peroxide to keep them from fungusing over. The young will take commercially prepared liquid fry food after their yold sacs are consumed and grow quite rapidly if you keep them in a large growout tank with good filtration and frequent water changes. It doesn't take them long at all to start taking flake food.

A mature male/female pair usually yields a minimum 200 egg clutch size about every two weeks if you remove the eggs but 500+ is very much doable if the female is well-conditioned and rested for three weeks between clutches.

Edited by viridari, 25 March 2008 - 01:09 PM.

I have kept them for this purpose, and I will confirm. Yes, indeed, convict cichlids breed like cockroaches and just about thrive on neglect.

Thanks a ton, viridari! Very useful information!

Cheers, Jase

I just posted in the trading dock asking if anyone has some convict cichlid broodstock to share: http://forum.nanfa.o...?showtopic=4449. Thanks in advance if you do!

I'm still disappointed by my complete inability to get Gambusia to reproduce. I just don't get it. I'll follow up on that topic elsewhere when I have time...

Cheers, Jase

I have had considerable difficulty finding convicts that will not breed so a special source / stock is likely not needed. A problem you will have when using convicts as feeders is that despite the frequent reproductive bouts the number of offspring per unit time is low.


For the same resources, a fathead minnow culture will likely be a better choice. They breed almost continously and fry can readily be switched to a manufactured diet without a prolonged period of brine shrimp feeding, without compromising growth. Adults not as inclined to attack each other as well.

Why the need for non-hatchery selected stock?

I have had considerable difficulty finding convicts that will not breed so a special source / stock is likely not needed. A problem you will have when using convicts as feeders is that despite the frequent reproductive bouts the number of offspring per unit time is low.
For the same resources, a fathead minnow culture will likely be a better choice. They breed almost continously and fry can readily be switched to a manufactured diet without a prolonged period of brine shrimp feeding, without compromising growth. Adults not as inclined to attack each other as well.

Why the need for non-hatchery selected stock?

I just read thread. Why not use tilapia? Breeding interval about two weeks, growth very rapid and live feeds not needed for any life stage. At some point distinguishing natives based on source will get fuzzy as just because on same continent.

I just read thread. Why not use tilapia? Breeding interval about two weeks, growth very rapid and live feeds not needed for any life stage. At some point distinguishing natives based on source will get fuzzy as just because on same continent.

Alright, now *that's* the coolest suggestion I've heard yet. I have definite plans to do some small-scale aquaculture in the near future (I'm actually planning to sign a purchase & sales agreement *tonight* on a property that will let me get started), and getting some experience with tilapia would be great. I know I've read that people actually hold their broodstock in large indoor aquariums sometimes, so that does seem like a reasonable idea. They're mouth-brooders, so little risk of eggs fungasing. A good starter page on tank culture is here: http://aquanic.org/p.../srac/282fs.pdf. I actually have several books on these guys to use as reference -- just hadn't made the connection that I could use little ones as feeders.

Thanks centrachid! Awesome input. I love this forum. -Jase

Alright, now *that's* the coolest suggestion I've heard yet. I have definite plans to do some small-scale aquaculture in the near future (I'm actually planning to sign a purchase & sales agreement *tonight* on a property that will let me get started), and getting some experience with tilapia would be great. I know I've read that people actually hold their broodstock in large indoor aquariums sometimes, so that does seem like a reasonable idea. They're mouth-brooders, so little risk of eggs fungasing. A good starter page on tank culture is here: http://aquanic.org/p.../srac/282fs.pdf. I actually have several books on these guys to use as reference -- just hadn't made the connection that I could use little ones as feeders.

Thanks centrachid! Awesome input. I love this forum. -Jase

I suggest you use Nile tilapia or at least a stock that is based largely on the species. Be aware that Nile tilapia not the best mothers in a stressful environment. You may find need for using a brooding tank and tranfer of brooding females to it without removing them from the water. Have ever used hatching jars?

Isn't that convicts really aggressive, even to its mates? I heard male convicts could kill the females if she are not ready for breeding. Plus what happen if you get too many fry that your pickerel cannot eat all of them? I think red rosies are better or even livebearers.

What about pink tipalia? They can breeding at 2-3inch long but not sure about how much profilic they are. But sounds like fun project.

Gambusia breed in the tub or in the pond are better than in the tank.

Whoever suggested desert gobies as feeders is crazy....everyone and their mother wants those fish!

Convicts would work. I second the fathead suggestion. I think you could use divided ten gallons for trios and hae another tank for nonbreeding males/females. Crank out a lot of fry and put them in an outdoor pond for growout.

For the guy with the paradisefish...is shallow nonmoving water important? I have wasted quite a few of these fish putting them outdoors trying to breed them. Hearing how cold tolerant they were made me leave them and the majority died...or at least developed serious swimbladder problems.

A method thats worked well for livebearers is to keep all the breeders in a net in a large tank or outdoor pond. Harvest young from the outside of the net. Occasionally, harvest up the older breeders and replace them with young vibrant fish. The only problem with this setup is that fry will occasionally swim back into the net and be eaten, but they soon grow too large for that.


But I think that for pickerel you probably want rather meaty fish. Most of these setups would be great for cranking out fry for perhaps some SA leaffish or similar.

Edited by critterguy, 12 April 2008 - 10:24 PM.

critterguy, paradise fish, like bettas, prefer shallow, warm, non moving water with some emergent vegetation to anchor their bubble nests....think rice paddies. As you probably know they are "labyrinth" fishes and are adapted to breathing atomospheric oxygen due to their oxygen deficient environments.

I have kept them for this purpose, and I will confirm. Yes, indeed, convict cichlids breed like cockroaches and just about thrive on neglect. I have had them pair off and lay eggs in the growout tank, so they mature at a very small size. Keep a male and female in a 10 gallon tank, with just enough furniture and maybe plants in the tank to keep them feeling secure. Give them a small pot on its side to lay eggs on, and replace it with a fresh one when they are done laying. You don't have to remove the eggs, as the parents are very good with their young, but it does keep production up. Keep a small air stone near the eggs to keep them oxygenated, and use hydrogen peroxide to keep them from fungusing over. The young will take commercially prepared liquid fry food after their yold sacs are consumed and grow quite rapidly if you keep them in a large growout tank with good filtration and frequent water changes. It doesn't take them long at all to start taking flake food.

A mature male/female pair usually yields a minimum 200 egg clutch size about every two weeks if you remove the eggs but 500+ is very much doable if the female is well-conditioned and rested for three weeks between clutches.

I to am looking for fry as feeders the convicts sound good
How do you think they will do in 45 gallon plastic pond by side of house (Miami) ? I have a large pond now in my yard and used the plastic 45 gallon pond as quarantine for the pond fish before adding them.
The problem might be the heat though its shaded area day temps will be mid to high 80s and unlike other pond no water circulation but water changes are easy as it rains lots and I siphon out water but my concerns are heat and will they jump out?

Considering that you could go to your local ditch to catch your breeders they'd do great!

For someone in FL, I wonder if a breeding pair of oscars would be better than a pair of convicts. In that warm weather you could simply give them a 75-100 gal container and let them go crazy.