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"Training" Fish


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#1 Guest_jase_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 02:31 PM

BOSTON - Call them Pavlov's fish: Scientists are testing a plan to train fish to catch themselves by swimming into a net when they hear a tone that signals feeding time.

If it works, the system could eventually allow black sea bass to be released into the open ocean, where they would grow to market size, then swim into an underwater cage to be harvested when they hear the signal.

http://news.yahoo.co...s/pavlov_s_fish

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Ok, now *that*'s cool. -Jase

Edited by jase, 26 March 2008 - 02:32 PM.


#2 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 02:47 PM

How long will it take the predators of the bass learn the sound signals a concentration of hypervulnerable prey?

#3 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:04 PM

How long will it take the predators of the bass learn the sound signals a concentration of hypervulnerable prey?


Dude, you are the life of the party :laugh: All that work and expense devastated in one sentence!!

#4 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 08:24 PM

Wow! That is so funny! Your one sentence has summed up the whole purpose of Irates existance. This amuses me so much, I cannot even bring myself to delete this.

#5 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:20 PM

The folly of man. How can you NOT laugh?!

#6 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:29 PM

The folly of man. How can you NOT laugh?!


Not attempting humor; did single effort for decade yesterday. Do you think the predators are incapable of learning? In most cases, predators for which measures have been made are at least as intelligent as their quarry. Do any pisciversous cetaceans occur where efforts are underway. Can they hear?


Just to introduce another consideration. I am a fish farmer that produces food-fishes for direct human consumption. Reason number two for use of cages in an open water situation is to exclude predators from production stock cause they eat the production stock.

Edited by centrarchid, 26 March 2008 - 09:36 PM.


#7 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 09:57 PM

I've heard big bass like to hangout near the boat ramp during trout stocking season.
We've got a real problem on Cape Cod with grey seals that have learned it's easier to steal hooked stripers from fishermen than to catch one themselves. The sound of a hooked fish splashing is the dinner bell.

#8 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 26 March 2008 - 10:04 PM

I've heard big bass like to hangout near the boat ramp during trout stocking season.
We've got a real problem on Cape Cod with grey seals that have learned it's easier to steal hooked stripers from fishermen than to catch one themselves. The sound of a hooked fish splashing is the dinner bell.


Yes, and many more similar examples can be brough up. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Concentrating so many fish in a small area will ultimately bring in the predators.


I do not think the sound trick is without merit. It might be more effective in closed systems where predators are not present but where confinement of production stock in cages would excessively degrade local water quality or enable epidemics. I could see such a system used where the body of water can not be seined or harvested without other forms or gear.

#9 Guest_Scenicrivers_*

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 08:49 AM

I think that this article either belongs here or in general discussion.

:huh: http://news.yahoo.co...s/pavlov_s_fish

#10 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 06:53 AM

Not sure anyone cares but for interest sake...
Earlier this year I helped my 11 year old son train a goldfish to swim through a hoop as a project for the science fair at school.
Here's two things we learned that have bearing on the news story above;

Number one, we started with two goldfish, a fancy shubokin and more natural shaped comet. The fancy shaped one, contrary to my prediction, was far and away the better learner. Actually, the comet seemed almost untrainable and his influence was impeding the other. When we seperated them, the fancy learned much quicker and we gave up on the comet. Interestingly, as they matured, it became obvious the smart fancy one was a female. Once she became visably ripe, the obviously male stupid one was pretty much preoccupied with chasing tail and not too interested in swimming through hoops.
I would assume this would be a factor in trying to train a mixed sex school of sea bass as well.

Second, and probably more significant, we found without constant reenforcment, the conditioning wore off very quickly. The goldfish remained at the school for several days after the science fair before I could get back and break down the tank and bring it home. During that time, numerous different kids were feeding ["rewarding"] the goldfish without making it swim through the hoop. By the time I got it home, it wanted nothing to do with the hoop.
Assuming food would be the reward used to condition the seabass, I doubt the conditioning would last very long once they got in the wild and foraged for themselves.

As a post script, when the goldfish tank became needed for a native fish project [mudminnow breeding], the poor goldfish were moved to a bucket which was subsequently "accidently" left outside on a night when temps dipped to single digits. When I informed my son, instead of being sad, he made a flip comment about not having to feed them anymore.
I guess that lack of emotional connection bodes well for the researchers that like to eat seabass. :tongue:

#11 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 07:15 AM

I guess that lack of emotional connection bodes well for the researchers that like to eat seabass. :tongue:


The emotional detachment phase will pass as soon as economic value is realized. This is major a reason why gamefish producers / fishery managers can walk all over the interest of those conncerned with non-game / non-commercial species. To the former, value for their interest is tangible!

#12 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 29 March 2008 - 01:14 PM

At Wimpy's marina in the Sacramento Delta (14001 W Walnut Grove Rd, Walnut Grove, CA) when we were taking our surveying boat out of the water (land surveying, not fish :( ) we got to see a DFG tanker "dumping 300-400 thousand salmon smolt right nto the launch area. They literally jus opened the valve and jetted the fish into the water. The stripers were churning the water and boats were lined up in the Mokelumne River catching 2-3 ft stripers one after the other.......they most certainly learn. I another part of the delta, not far from Wimpy's Marina on the San Joaquin RIver locals all complainted about the sea lions taking the stripers off their lines.



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