I am conducting snail experiment experiment with shovelnose sturgeon, freshwater drum and hybrid redear. In 1/10 ponds with about eight hundred 4-5" sunshine bass (hybrid striped white x striped), we placed 3 individuals each of the previously mentioned taxon. The sunshine bass avoid the drum ( a potential predator length 12-14") but associate with the sturgeon (length 14-30") which are supprisingly active. The sturgeon move about on the bottom apparently looking for eats and the sunshine bass whirl about in a massive school overhead. I do no know how is following. I can see this because the ponds haved cleared on us.

I am conducting snail experiment experiment with shovelnose sturgeon, freshwater drum and hybrid redear. In 1/10 ponds with about eight hundred 4-5" sunshine bass (hybrid striped white x striped), we placed 3 individuals each of the previously mentioned taxon. The sunshine bass avoid the drum ( a potential predator length 12-14") but associate with the sturgeon (length 14-30") which are supprisingly active. The sturgeon move about on the bottom apparently looking for eats and the sunshine bass whirl about in a massive school overhead. I do no know how is following. I can see this because the ponds haved cleared on us.

Can you tell us what your experiment is looking for? I can see why your bass might ignore the sturgeon, their feeding behavior and or mouth shape may not be triggering a fear response in the bass. The drum has both the shape of a predator and the mouth shape of a predator. This might be with in the range that triggers the fear response.

Can you tell us what your experiment is looking for? I can see why your bass might ignore the sturgeon, their feeding behavior and or mouth shape may not be triggering a fear response in the bass. The drum has both the shape of a predator and the mouth shape of a predator. This might be with in the range that triggers the fear response.

Experiment is a prelimnary trial to determine whether the sturgeon, drum and sunfish can tolerate 48 h confinement in 40 gallon tubs approximating dimensions of 40 gallon breeder tanks. The confinement period is long enough allow evacuation of gut contents (snail shells). The three species will be allowed to move freely about the ponds before and after confinement. We shall be watching for immediate and long term (1 week post release) mortality. Tub water quality will be maintained by continously pumping water from the pond they were captured from. Over-flow will return to pond therefore the pond will serve as a bio-filter.


If the shovelnose sturgeon can tolerate, then we will be able to treat lake sturgeon in a similar fashion when they are challenged with rams horn snails as potential prey. Lake sturgeon protected in these parts.

I have no doubt the drum sets off an anti-predator response as it is one, especially in culture ponds with appropriately sized prey. I had to delay stocking of drum to reduce depredation risk on bass fingerlings.

Moon may be right, body shape is an important factor on how fish identify each other as potential predator, competition, mate, whatever...

On the other hand, this may be more behavioural... Several of us (farmertodd, casper and I for sure) have seen and commented on the frequency in which we see small bass or sunfish following a hogsucker in a stream... the hoover (erhh hogsucker) is making a mess of the substrate stirring things up and the bass feeds easily on the other stuff that is stirred up or dislodged. So this may be just a minor shift for the small bass... follow the long guy on the bottom stirring things up and eat what he flushes out (small inverts, small fish, etc.)... only this time the long guy on the bottom is a sturgeon... whatever. On the other hand you should always avoid guys bigger than you swimming fast in the middle of the water column... they might be hungry.

Moon may be right, body shape is an important factor on how fish identify each other as potential predator, competition, mate, whatever...

On the other hand, this may be more behavioural... Several of us (farmertodd, casper and I for sure) have seen and commented on the frequency in which we see small bass or sunfish following a hogsucker in a stream... the hoover (erhh hogsucker) is making a mess of the substrate stirring things up and the bass feeds easily on the other stuff that is stirred up or dislodged. So this may be just a minor shift for the small bass... follow the long guy on the bottom stirring things up and eat what he flushes out (small inverts, small fish, etc.)... only this time the long guy on the bottom is a sturgeon... whatever. On the other hand you should always avoid guys bigger than you swimming fast in the middle of the water column... they might be hungry.

Bass are white x striped (sunshine bass), not mallmouth.

Smallmouth I have observed as you indicated also. Smallmouth might even defend privilige to follow the hogsucker. They could also be using the larger fish like Cooper's hawks use dear and sometimes people as cover.

Ah, so this is part of the lead-up to a snail-predation experiment? What species of ramshorn are you offering?

Ah, so this is part of the lead-up to a snail-predation experiment? What species of ramshorn are you offering?

Heliosoma "idontknowsis", largest species we have in Missouri culture ponds and is easy to get. Occurs in two color morphs, brown and maroon. Shell maximum diameter pushing 1". Do you know your snails?

Heliosoma "idontknowsis", largest species we have in Missouri culture ponds and is easy to get. Occurs in two color morphs, brown and maroon. Shell maximum diameter pushing 1". Do you know your snails?

In passing, really. They sound rather like the red- and brown-phase ramshorns in the aquarium trade.

In passing, really. They sound rather like the red- and brown-phase ramshorns in the aquarium trade.

I think several ramshorn species may be in trade. Those I am using are one of the larger types that is more laterally compressed than similar sized species with the faint stripe pattern coming out of Florida from time to time. I really need to get it down as to what species I am working with.

The large red and brown 'ramshorns' in the pet trade are actually a South American ampullariid (apple snail), not planorbids like our native ramshorns. If an operculum is present it is the ampullariid.

The large red and brown 'ramshorns' in the pet trade are actually a South American ampullariid (apple snail), not planorbids like our native ramshorns. If an operculum is present it is the ampullariid.

Thus my ramshorns are planorbids. The red and brown of my snails are morphs, not generally ocuring on the same animal.