I received some hairgrass (not sure what kind exactly) from Skipjack earlier this year. It grew pretty nicely during the spring and then faded away during the summer. Most of it has died but it has started growing again. It is in a 29G with dual-fluorescent bulbs with fluorite/gravel substrate. I think the bulbs are 17w? I can put 20w bulbs in for a total of 40w. Do I just need to upgrade my lighting and get a 65w bulb? If so, any DIY plans?
hairgrass in aquaria
Started by
Guest_drewish_*
, Nov 14 2006 06:02 PM
21 replies to this topic
#4
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:15 PM
What are the dimensions of the tank? Is it 36" long? If so, I'd upgrade the lights. If you can fit more light over what you have, I would generally do so.
Not sure why they would recover so suddenly. Has anything else changed? Even different feeding routines?
Well... actually... I do have an idea. How long did it last before it started to die? Was it really growing then, or just sitting and looking pretty? When the plant was collected it was most likely emmersed. Emersed growth usually dies back, to be replaced by growth more suited to life underwater. There are structural differences in the leaf/stems between emmersed and submersed plants of the same species. Usually, the emersed leaf structure can not survive life underwater as gasses don't pass freely enough through the tissues. Submersed leaves generally can't survive out of water, as they dessicate.
Not sure why they would recover so suddenly. Has anything else changed? Even different feeding routines?
Well... actually... I do have an idea. How long did it last before it started to die? Was it really growing then, or just sitting and looking pretty? When the plant was collected it was most likely emmersed. Emersed growth usually dies back, to be replaced by growth more suited to life underwater. There are structural differences in the leaf/stems between emmersed and submersed plants of the same species. Usually, the emersed leaf structure can not survive life underwater as gasses don't pass freely enough through the tissues. Submersed leaves generally can't survive out of water, as they dessicate.
#5
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 10:37 PM
I had a bad brush algae outbreak in the same tank. I removed the driftwood, added snails, and changed the fish around.
Before the outbreak, there were shoots and sprouts of more grass around the original plant. That lasted a month or so. There is still a decent amount of algae left but not as much as there was before. The tank is 30" long with two 24" fluorescent bulbs.
It appears to be slowly growing back. I just lowered the amount of light to 8 hours from 10. Unfortunately that tank's timer is linked to two others which have low-light plants so I can get away with lower amounts of light. I guess I should really get another timer.
Wouldn't I be promoting algae growth in the rest of the tank if I raised the wattage and increased light cycle?
Before the outbreak, there were shoots and sprouts of more grass around the original plant. That lasted a month or so. There is still a decent amount of algae left but not as much as there was before. The tank is 30" long with two 24" fluorescent bulbs.
It appears to be slowly growing back. I just lowered the amount of light to 8 hours from 10. Unfortunately that tank's timer is linked to two others which have low-light plants so I can get away with lower amounts of light. I guess I should really get another timer.
Wouldn't I be promoting algae growth in the rest of the tank if I raised the wattage and increased light cycle?
#6
Guest_choupique_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 01:45 AM
I have had luck with it, only using either one forty watt bulb - nothing special there either, and in another tank with a 15 watt. Why it lived: I didn't care less about it, it came in with some other plants I had picked up while fishing. I never planted it, instead let it float near the surface with its roots hanging downwards.
It seems that it would need high lighting, since in the wild it grows on exposed banks with no shade the best. It can quickly carpet the area if nutrients are high, shade is not there, and the substrate is mostly sand.
Like mentioned above, the aquatic leaves are thinner and don't stand up out of water. The terrestial foliage is stiffer, and resembles thin, bright green golf course green grass.
It seems that it would need high lighting, since in the wild it grows on exposed banks with no shade the best. It can quickly carpet the area if nutrients are high, shade is not there, and the substrate is mostly sand.
Like mentioned above, the aquatic leaves are thinner and don't stand up out of water. The terrestial foliage is stiffer, and resembles thin, bright green golf course green grass.
#7
Guest_Histrix_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 09:07 AM
I would increase the wattage and reduce the amount of time the lights are on. 7 hours/day or so should be enough to keep the plants alive and well, but not to encourage excessive algal growth.
#8
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 09:43 AM
Do you tend to have algae problems in general? If so, you might want to look into the phosphorus content of your tap water. Many municipalities are putting phosphorus-based anti-corrosives inthe water to lower lead contents. Unfortunately, phosphorus-removing filter media does not act on this chemical. About the only plant that can take it up is algae. However, when the algae die, it does convert to orthophosphate (the available kind that can be removed).
Call your water company. They will be able to tell you. They don't seem to put this info on the mandated water quality info sheets that they send out. If they are adding it, you might want to get a DI or RO machine. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals sells a DI filter for about $40. I have one and have been happy with it. You do need to add minerals back in, though (or you will kill your fish). Or, if you are like me and tend not to do water changes, you can use it straight to replace evaporated water.
You can also help with algae problems with some floating plants. These can even be used to remove nutrients from the water. If you need, I can send you some native frogbit. DON'T put in duckweed or Azolla. You'll regret it 1000 times over.
Also - is your tank particularly tall? If so, light might not be getting to the bottom very well. I have a 20-tall (the kind that is like two 10's stacked together) that I simply can not light well enough using the surface area it has. Also - Histrix is right - it is better to have brighter light for shorter time periods than the other way around.
Call your water company. They will be able to tell you. They don't seem to put this info on the mandated water quality info sheets that they send out. If they are adding it, you might want to get a DI or RO machine. Aquarium Pharmaceuticals sells a DI filter for about $40. I have one and have been happy with it. You do need to add minerals back in, though (or you will kill your fish). Or, if you are like me and tend not to do water changes, you can use it straight to replace evaporated water.
You can also help with algae problems with some floating plants. These can even be used to remove nutrients from the water. If you need, I can send you some native frogbit. DON'T put in duckweed or Azolla. You'll regret it 1000 times over.
Also - is your tank particularly tall? If so, light might not be getting to the bottom very well. I have a 20-tall (the kind that is like two 10's stacked together) that I simply can not light well enough using the surface area it has. Also - Histrix is right - it is better to have brighter light for shorter time periods than the other way around.
#9
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 11:17 AM
On our gar collection trip, I discussed my algae problem with Histrix. She basically told me to remove the wood and do water changes. That seemed to work but what really worked was adding the snails.
I never did buy a phosphate testing kit but I've always had some algae problems but I've learn to deal with it. I've changed my light timing around and it doesn't appear to be as much of a problem. Instead of cleaning the glass every 2 weeks, it is more like once a month. This is regarding all my tanks.
Will the frogbit just block the light from getting below? That would cause issues with my hairgrass, would it not?
This hairgrass is somewhat of an experiment. I want to put some in my 180G darter tank when I get it setup.
I never did buy a phosphate testing kit but I've always had some algae problems but I've learn to deal with it. I've changed my light timing around and it doesn't appear to be as much of a problem. Instead of cleaning the glass every 2 weeks, it is more like once a month. This is regarding all my tanks.
Will the frogbit just block the light from getting below? That would cause issues with my hairgrass, would it not?
This hairgrass is somewhat of an experiment. I want to put some in my 180G darter tank when I get it setup.
#10
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 12:42 PM
The frogbit will block light from getting below. But you can keep it corralled to one section of the tank.
About the phosphorus - I don't think the test kits pick up the phosphorus additive that water suppliers use. Anyway, if water changes are working, then that's probably not the issue anyway. In my area, water changes make the problem worse.
About the phosphorus - I don't think the test kits pick up the phosphorus additive that water suppliers use. Anyway, if water changes are working, then that's probably not the issue anyway. In my area, water changes make the problem worse.
#11
Guest_Skipjack_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:07 PM
Root pothos in the tank! Pothos is great for sucking up excess nutrients, you cannot kill it, and draped over the side, looks pretty attractive. Oh yeah, the roots make great hiding places. I am sold on it!
#12
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 07:58 PM
I did some digging around and it looks like it could be Eleocharis acicularis?
any DIY light strip plans?
I was looking at getting this : http://tinyurl.com/yhtahu
any DIY light strip plans?
I was looking at getting this : http://tinyurl.com/yhtahu
#13
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 08:00 PM
Also, that hairgrass was collected from a springfed creek during midwinter. It was completetely submersed, with a good flow. Mine also died back as Drew described. Actually seemed that warmer temps hastened its dieback. Could this particular strain be coldwater oriented?
#14
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Posted 15 November 2006 - 08:03 PM
Or could cold water allow it to live with less light, and when its metabolism increases with warmer water, so do its light requirements?
#15
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Posted 16 November 2006 - 11:02 AM
I did some digging around and it looks like it could be Eleocharis acicularis?
any DIY light strip plans?
I was looking at getting this :http://tinyurl.com/yhtahu
How tall is the plant? I can't tell from the picture. E. acicularis is pretty short, and grows really fine. It does need high light, if that's what it is.
Before you buy the lamp you were looking at, go down to Home Depot or Lowes. They probably have a similar lamp for a lot less money.
About DIY light strips: In my opinion, it is only worth it if you already have the ballast or you are looking to overdrive the bulbs. If so, it's pretty easy. The hardest thing is building the hood for it to go in. (Which, depending on your skills and tools available, may not be too hard.) There are special end caps for damp locations; I would use those instead of the regular ones. I'll try to remember to take a picture of my homemade hoods. I may not get to it until after this weekend, though. (goin' camping / fishing / collecting)
#16
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Posted 16 November 2006 - 12:22 PM
How tall is the plant? I can't tell from the picture. E. acicularis is pretty short, and grows really fine. It does need high light, if that's what it is.
Before you buy the lamp you were looking at, go down to Home Depot or Lowes. They probably have a similar lamp for a lot less money.
About DIY light strips: In my opinion, it is only worth it if you already have the ballast or you are looking to overdrive the bulbs. If so, it's pretty easy. The hardest thing is building the hood for it to go in. (Which, depending on your skills and tools available, may not be too hard.) There are special end caps for damp locations; I would use those instead of the regular ones. I'll try to remember to take a picture of my homemade hoods. I may not get to it until after this weekend, though. (goin' camping / fishing / collecting)
Is E. acicularis what they call "dwarf hairgrass"? I have that too and it did the same thing. The other plant was pretty tall around 8 inches.
I figure I need to get it to grow in my small tank before trying it in a bigger tank. The 29G is a tall tank and my 180G is 24" tall so I'll need something more powerful than just a fluorescent bulb or just more bulbs?
#17
Guest_nativeplanter_*
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Posted 16 November 2006 - 12:55 PM
There are a few plants that could be called "dwarf hairgrass"; E. acicularis is one of them. Do you know where the one you have (the tall one) came from? That will help narrow it down.
Did the dwarf hairgrass die back at the same time? Is it in the same tank? Or did they both do it X-amount of time after you put them in the tank? Or at the same time of year? This has me curious.
For lighting, you probably just need more bulbs. If starting from scratch, use bulbs that are as long as your tank. T8s are better than T12, and T5 seems to be the new way to go. If you are using electronic ballasts (as opposed to magnetic), you can set them up to overdrive bulbs to get more light out of them. The only issue with more bulbs is more heat. If heat becomes a problem, you might want to look at the more expensive compact fluorescent aquarium bulbs. I keep waiting for this style to become more popular for regular fluorescent lighting (so I can buy it at HD or Lowes for less).
I often try new plants in smaller tanks, even gallon jars. It makes it much easier to fiddle with.
Did the dwarf hairgrass die back at the same time? Is it in the same tank? Or did they both do it X-amount of time after you put them in the tank? Or at the same time of year? This has me curious.
For lighting, you probably just need more bulbs. If starting from scratch, use bulbs that are as long as your tank. T8s are better than T12, and T5 seems to be the new way to go. If you are using electronic ballasts (as opposed to magnetic), you can set them up to overdrive bulbs to get more light out of them. The only issue with more bulbs is more heat. If heat becomes a problem, you might want to look at the more expensive compact fluorescent aquarium bulbs. I keep waiting for this style to become more popular for regular fluorescent lighting (so I can buy it at HD or Lowes for less).
I often try new plants in smaller tanks, even gallon jars. It makes it much easier to fiddle with.
#18
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 16 November 2006 - 01:21 PM
The hairgrass was collected by Skipjack in Ohio in a spring fed creek. He said it was submerged in the middle of the creek so it gets a lot of sunlight.
The dwarf hairgrass in the same tank did the same thing probably a week or so later. They are both slowly growing back. The dwarf haigrass is from a FL plant farm that I purchased from a LFS. They pretty much acted the same way at the same time.
I'll take a look at HD tonight on my way home and see what they have.
I'm experimenting with an Ott-lite bulb in one of my tanks. It isn't a planted tank but I like the look of it. They are 20W T-12, so I guess you are saying not to use those.
The dwarf hairgrass in the same tank did the same thing probably a week or so later. They are both slowly growing back. The dwarf haigrass is from a FL plant farm that I purchased from a LFS. They pretty much acted the same way at the same time.
I'll take a look at HD tonight on my way home and see what they have.
I'm experimenting with an Ott-lite bulb in one of my tanks. It isn't a planted tank but I like the look of it. They are 20W T-12, so I guess you are saying not to use those.
#19
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Posted 16 November 2006 - 01:44 PM
Isn't the Ott-light pretty expensive? I get the feeling that it is pretty much a "daylight" bulb, no?
As far as the T-12s go, there is no reason not to use them. Its just that if you are starting from scratch, the T8s are more efficient and emit less heat.
As far as the T-12s go, there is no reason not to use them. Its just that if you are starting from scratch, the T8s are more efficient and emit less heat.
#20
Guest_drewish_*
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Posted 16 November 2006 - 02:07 PM
http://tinyurl.com/w9qzj
I got that bulb from HD for $10. It is better than the Sun-Glo that I had purchased prior to that.
It is supposed to simulate the amount of light produced by the sun at primetime (noon).
I got that bulb from HD for $10. It is better than the Sun-Glo that I had purchased prior to that.
It is supposed to simulate the amount of light produced by the sun at primetime (noon).
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