Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Gambusia from SW Georgia (Grady County)

Started by Guest_fish for brains_* , Jun 14 2007 11:25 AM

Next

Please log in to reply

35 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:25 AM

I'm helping my neighbor manage a small pond and I want to stock it with indigenous fish. This Gambusia was collected from another one of his ponds and I'm considering adding them to the pond I'm working on. I have two questions, one being which type of Gambusia is this?

My other question is about whether or not to stock Gams at all. I've heard that they are extremely aggressive little fish that will make it difficult or impossible to establish many other small indigenous fish. My inspiration for this pond has been influenced by this cool article - http://www.nanfa.org...acgeorgia.shtml , and I would like to have the largest variety of small fish I can have. Will the Gams dominate the shoreline to the exclusion of many other fish?

Any comments are appreciated.

Back to top

#2 Guest_fishlvr_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:35 AM

First of all that is an eastern mosquitofish (Gambusia holbrooki), I believe. As far as them dominating the shoreline, it's very possible. Even with only a few, they breed rapidly and can easily outcompete other species. You even have to be careful if you just add one female, because the can retain sperm from one mating and have several broods. I would go with some more peaceful species. If the people you're building the pond for want mosquito fish, I would suggest just keeping them in a small, 10 gallon species tank or something.

Back to top

#3 Guest_killier_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 11:55 AM

NO no monsquito fish stick with killies or drawf/pygmy sunnies
but if you want a livebearer get least killifish or drawf livebearer smaller and a lot less agressive

Back to top

#4 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 12:04 PM

Thanks fishlvr. Actually the people who own the pond(s) don't even know what these minnows are. They didn't stock them in the pond I collected them from. I think they were only recently observed.

My original idea was to stock them first as a forage base for the eventual stocking of Green Sunfish, which will be the apex predator in this pond. This would probably be the fastest way to establish a forage base at this time of year, but it might not be worth it.

I'm aware that even if I don't stock Gams they might show naturally as in the other pond.

Back to top

#5 Guest_fishlvr_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 12:11 PM

They would be good forage fish, if they were the only small fish in the pond(besides baby sunnies, if they bred). Adult green sunfish would probably eat as many if not more adults than the females are popping out. If the pond wasn't stocked with gambusia, then you could stock the pond with the much more peaceful fathead minnow. I wouldn't stock it with rosy reds though, because the green sunfish would probably eat the obvious adults before they could make more of them. Regular fatheads would be a good choice because they can camouflage better, but the sunfish would still be able to find enough to eat. You would have to look at your stock fish carfully though, because mosquito fish sometimes get mixed in with them at bait shops and pet stores.

Back to top

#6 Guest_fundulus_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 01:01 PM

Fathead minnows are an exotic species in Georgia, although they've certainly been widely introduced. Putting in Gambusia could result in a monoculture, they'll exclude many other species through what's called interference competition; basically they're always in the way, distracting, and besides that they're aggressive. Check out some of the swamp-loving killies like the lined killifish.

Back to top

#7 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 01:08 PM

hey Fish for Brains...

If your goal is to manage for native fishes, and your pond is in Grady Co., GA, why do you want green sunfish? They are not native to either of the major drainages in the county (don't have records from the Ochlockonee, and I hope you wouldn't try to introduce them from the adjacent Appalachicola, where they are introduced and have become fairly common). On the other hand, warmouth are native and reach a slightly larger maximum adult size. Both species have a very strong tendency to stunt, so one aspect of managing a pond for quality greens or warmouth would be removing a large number of intermediate sized fish and juveniles on a regular basis after they become established to drive up the adult size.

Cheers,
Dave

Back to top

#8 Guest_fishlvr_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 01:49 PM

Warmouth, IMO, would be an excellent second choice.

Back to top

#9 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 01:51 PM

Thanks fundulus.

daveneely: Thanks, the reason I was going with GSF was primarily because one of the goals of this pond is fishing. Part of the population control plan involves a deep fryer. :shock:

The horrible truth is that I was planning on Greenies because I am familiar with them and like them, and I thought they were local. If Warmouths are more consistant with my goal of an indigenous pond I will certainly consider switching. I didn't know that they got bigger than GSF. I'll be looking into WM, but in the mean time if anyone would like to go into a comparison of the two species I would like it.

Back to top

#10 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 02:15 PM

Just for the heck of it, what's this?

This fish was caught at my neighbor's other pond.

Back to top

#11 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 03:08 PM

Just for the heck of it, what's this?

Looks like you already have warmouth there!

You might also consider a mixed warmouth/flier community; they often co-occur naturally, and eat different stuff (fliers eat more insects), so you could maintain good populations of both species without too much competition...

They taste good, too.

cheers,
Dave

Back to top

#12 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 03:20 PM

daveneely, no offense but how sure are of this ID?

Since you brought up Warmouth I'm doing comparisons between them and GSF. Can you offer any major differences?

I guess I should move this to a more appropriate thread since the subject has changed.

Back to top

#13 Guest_dsmith73_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 03:29 PM

daveneely, no offense but how sure are of this ID?

This is for certain a warmouth.

The most important difference between the two is that warmouth is native to your area and green is introduced.

Back to top

#14 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 03:39 PM

You all might get some entertainment from a thread I started at the Pond Boss website. It pertains to stocking GSF into recreational ponds. Although the people at Pond Boss have different goals regarding fish, they are basically a fine bunch of folks. Maybe there's enough in common that some you might even post.

Anyway here's the thread you might like: http://www.pondboss....=5;t=000637;p=1

Back to top

#15 Guest_teleost_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:06 PM

Lets not have a repeat of the last link to a forum.... [-o<

Back to top

#16 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:15 PM

Did I break a rule or does this just remind you of a high point on this forum? :neutral:

Back to top

#17 Guest_fundulus_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:22 PM

The last forum link almost touched off a gang war, for no really good reason as it turns out. I'll keep my head down this time...

Back to top

#18 Guest_fish for brains_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 04:37 PM

If you mean a war with the other forum, ain't gonna happen. Pond Boss is good group of people with little interest in arguments. Actually most of them are too busy tending their ponds for that. It's also a fairly mature forum, age-wise.

Back to top

#19 Guest_teleost_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 05:00 PM

The last forum link almost touched off a gang war, for no really good reason as it turns out. I'll keep my head down this time...

Fundulus,

I'm not pointing a finger at you. In fact many that participated in the last inter-forum event provided a positive impact until a few remarks of a personal nature really made us look silly. No biggie, just the way things go when a gang war happens. Rarely a good result in a "pile on" situation.

Back to top

#20 Guest_daveneely_*

Guests

Posted 14 June 2007 - 05:18 PM

daveneely, no offense but how sure are of this ID? Since you brought up Warmouth I'm doing comparisons between them and GSF. Can you offer any major differences?

No offense taken, but I'm quite sure on this ID.

While there's some variation across the range (and especially across different size classes) of green sunfish, in the southeastern US they'll nearly always have a large black spot at the insertion of both the dorsal and anal fins, and usually a yellowish or white margin on all median fins. Rather than the dark-striped cheek of a warmouth (often with three dark brown lines radiating posteriorly from the eye), greens will have bluish wavy streaks under the eye and onto the cheek. If you're still not sure, crank the mouth open and look at the tongue; warmouth have a patch of teeth on the anterior part of the tongue, that greens lack. You could also count the number of scales along the lateral line (36-44 in warmouth, 43-52 in greens), etc., etc...

Hope this helps.
Dave