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Esox Americanus X Esox Niger


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#1 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:22 PM

Some of you may recall another Esox that Skipjack had last year. I was able to catch another this past weekend. According to Fishes of VA, this area is common for these types of hybrids.

What are your thoughts?

Full body (too big for my photo tank)
Attached File  redfin_full.jpg   77.17KB   3 downloads

Close up for the snout
Attached File  redfin_snout.jpg   94.09KB   0 downloads

#2 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 07:44 PM

Ya flip him over and count chin pores? They should be visible enough for the naked eye at that size.

#3 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 08:19 PM

Well, it is in transit, so I will ask Matt to do so when he receives this one.

#4 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 08:21 PM

Will do, but expect no answer there.

#5 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 08:56 PM

That snout looked long so I chopped up your photo Drew. I hope you don't mind.
I made the lines then copied the colored lines below and made them bold. Provided I put the lines in the proper places, I measure the snout to be a bit greater than %16 longer than the gill cover.

Will do, but expect no answer there

I don't understand...Not going to count pores?

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#6 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 12:07 PM

Well a chain has 3-5 pores, and a redfin usually has 4. so likely I will get no definitive answer. But I surely plan on counting them.

#7 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 01:42 PM

Well a chain has 3-5 pores, and a redfin usually has 4. so likely I will get no definitive answer. But I surely plan on counting them.


I guess I better get my books out but in the mean time I'll beg you to get a shot of the branch rays for us in hopes a helpful someone might guide us through the esox of Drew's back yard.

#8 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 02:08 PM

As I figured. 4 pores. I will try to get ray photos. Drew the fish is well.

#9 Guest_scottefontay_*

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 02:44 PM

Interesting looking fish.

any notion on how large one of these hybrids will likely get? I know that it could be as large a chain...

Do they tend to be fertile?

#10 Guest_Skipjack_*

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 04:20 PM

Scottefontay, as of now this is not confirmed as a hybrid. It just may have the potential to be one. Another fish from this location that I had, was very intermediate (both in looks, and counts) between a Redfin, and a Chain. So Drew sent me this fish, so that I could play with it.

#11 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:22 PM

Hey what about my fish? :lol:
I do find pure redfins around here and they always have at least a tinge of red in the fins, a much shorter snout with no dip and a distictly back slanted tear drop.
According to Hartel et al in Inland Fishes of Massachusetts,
"Redfin pickeral readily hybridize with chain pickeral and produce fertile hybrids, which are common in Massachusetts."
What I oughta do is drop 'em in a bottle of alchohol and drive into Cambridge and let the expert have a look. Too bad I already kinda gave it away.
I'm pretty convinced it's a hybrid, I just wanted to hear what you guys have to say.

Edit; Oops, somehow got the two threads confused, Nevermind. :oops:

Edited by mikez, 16 April 2008 - 10:39 PM.


#12 Guest_dmarkley_*

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:07 AM

Hey what about my fish? :lol:
I do find pure redfins around here and they always have at least a tinge of red in the fins, a much shorter snout with no dip and a distictly back slanted tear drop.
According to Hartel et al in Inland Fishes of Massachusetts,
"Redfin pickeral readily hybridize with chain pickeral and produce fertile hybrids, which are common in Massachusetts."
What I oughta do is drop 'em in a bottle of alchohol and drive into Cambridge and let the expert have a look. Too bad I already kinda gave it away.
I'm pretty convinced it's a hybrid, I just wanted to hear what you guys have to say.

Edit; Oops, somehow got the two threads confused, Nevermind. :oops:


I've really got to question that statement "readily hybridize". If it happened so easily, wouldn't you think that there would be no pure redfin or chain stock left? I won't argue that hybrids don't happen in nature, they do. But I think they are the exception rather than the rule.

Dean

#13 Guest_silverperch_*

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:43 AM

Esox niger vs Esox americanus:

Here is a quick, fairly reliable way to ID Esox spp. E. niger - suborbital bar (dark line below eye) is nearly vertical; E. americanus - suborbital bar is angled backward. From: Ross, S.T. 2001. The Inland Fishes of Mississippi. University Press of Mississippi, Jackson. 624 p.

Yours is E. niger according to this characteristic.

Take care,
Gretchen

#14 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 11:50 AM

Well Matt has informed me that this fish has stayed relatively small even given a large amount of food. So it didn't follow the growth pattern of the first fish. So it is leaning more towards being a pure redfin with a long snout.

Maybe one day I will go down and record lengths of a sample of them with some pictures.

#15 Guest_diburning_*

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Posted 26 April 2008 - 03:59 PM

Hey what about my fish? :lol:
I do find pure redfins around here and they always have at least a tinge of red in the fins, a much shorter snout with no dip and a distictly back slanted tear drop.
According to Hartel et al in Inland Fishes of Massachusetts,
"Redfin pickeral readily hybridize with chain pickeral and produce fertile hybrids, which are common in Massachusetts."
What I oughta do is drop 'em in a bottle of alchohol and drive into Cambridge and let the expert have a look. Too bad I already kinda gave it away.
I'm pretty convinced it's a hybrid, I just wanted to hear what you guys have to say.

Edit; Oops, somehow got the two threads confused, Nevermind. :oops:


Where do you catch these pickeral? I live in Boston. I assume that you must not live too far away seeing that you had pictures of icefishing on Jamaica Pond.

#16 Guest_mikez_*

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 10:30 AM

Where do you catch these pickeral? I live in Boston. I assume that you must not live too far away seeing that you had pictures of icefishing on Jamaica Pond.



I'm in the north-central part of the state.
BTW, I've never fished Jamaica pond, although I did post ice fishing pics.

#17 Guest_diburning_*

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Posted 27 April 2008 - 09:55 PM

I'm in the north-central part of the state.
BTW, I've never fished Jamaica pond, although I did post ice fishing pics.


Oh really? people said something about jamaica pond in that thread. hmm...




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