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Native fish for aquaculture

Started by Guest_mrgrackle_* , Feb 16 2008 05:37 PM

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21 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_mrgrackle_*

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 05:37 PM

Well, I've got an aquaponics system with a 300 gal. stock tank and 150 gal. of grow beds. Aquaponics is basically a merger of Aquaculter and hydroponics. The idea is simple... I've got a tank with fish in it. The fish poo/pee, the water gets circulated through 150 gal. of gravel that's planted with vegetables. After the water travels through the gravel it recirculates back into the fish tank.

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Currently I've got 10 bluegill in my system that are all 1-2". The system can handle up to 30lbs of fish and keep the water very clean and grow a lot of veges. You can see the peas starting to come up in the middle blue barrel in the picture. Water is being pumped up the 1/2" pvc into the water manifold there in the top of the picture and then into the grow beds. When it drains from the grow beds it flows back into the tank via those 2 2" pvcs there.

So, I'd like some advice on the best natives to raise for human consumption. I prefer natives because I can easly catch them locally and I shouldn't have to do anything energy intensive to keep the water temp. in an acceptable range. Also, there's none of the environmentally damaging aspects of escaping non-native fish. I know it's unlikely but... ya.

I like the idea of bluegill because they're native, free, hardy, tasty, easy to catch and I should be able to get them to spawn. They aren't perfect though.... I think they're slow growers compared to some of the other fish that are used in aquaculture. They're carnivors which make their food more expensive and harder to source. They don't get very big, though I guess a 1lb fish is a good eating sized fish.

Tilapia is a very common aquaculture fish because it has a lot of great things going for it. I'm not doing tilapia because they're not native and I'd have to keep the water temp above 50 to not kill them and in the 80s for maximum growth. Nice thing about them though is that they grow fast, spawn easly and best of all, they can feed on free floating algae in the water. Feeding on such a low end of the food chain makes them very easy/cheap to feed. It can be as simple as dumping manure in the water, causing algae blooms, which the extract from the water with their gill rakers.

If you where going to raise a fish to eat in central texas, which one would you use and why? I wouldn't be opposed to a mutli-species population either if it would work well.

considerations:
feeding low on the food chain
grow fast
taste good
easy to breed
adapted to local temperatures (average lake temperature around here is 68. I think it'll go from the low 40s to high 90s)

So, yeah... any idea's suggestions would be awesome

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#2 Guest_Nightwing_*

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 07:26 PM

Channel cat's or bullhead?
Not sure of ease of breeding, but they seem to meet all the rest of your requirements.

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#3 Guest_arnoldi_*

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 08:04 PM

I've seen your videos on youtube (I assume that was you). You must promise to keep us up to date on your progress and definitely include fish pics!
I would agree with nightwing that catfish would probably be the fastest growers, and I would use a larger species because they will put on the pounds faster.
The largest problem with using natives, as you have already pointed out, is that there isn't a very large varitey of tasty herbivorous fish here. At least not any I can think of off hand.

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#4 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 11:58 PM

Yup, channel cat.

So, how fine is the gravel you are growing the plants in?

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#5 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 12:57 AM

You know, there are tasty crappie to be had in lakes around here... Don't know how easy they are to breed in shallow pools, but I would consider them.

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#6 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 12:57 AM

Channel catfish would work but I would worry about the carrying capacity of that setup. Perhaps bullhead instead. Yellow perch come to mind as well but I don't believe you have them in Texas and if you do they aren't native. Also don't know their growth rates.

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#7 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:01 AM

They tried stocking yellow perch here in the past, but it's too warm. There might be remnant populations, but I don't know where.

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#8 Michael Wolfe

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North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage

Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:12 AM

It may take one more step (and I know that in these kinds of set-ups every extra step introduces some inefficiency), but what about some algae eating shiner that would reproduce and become food for the sunfish/bullhead? Or if you could grow enough of them large enough, just eat the shiners.

Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin

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#9 Guest_puchisapo_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:46 AM

you already mentioned that you don't wish to use tilapia, but if you ever want to try them out i might have some Oreochromis aureus available next year. i am trying to get them to spawn. with this species you could have eating-size fish in a single season.

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#10 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:17 PM

Natives I would consider largemouth bass and sunshine bass (white x striped bass). Latter not truely native to your neck of woods and both more carnivorous than you prefer, but they can readily reach 1.5 pounds.

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#11 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:37 PM

The hyrbid wouldn'y fulfill the easy to breed (sustainable population ?) aspect of the system. I'd say bluegill and bullhead would best fit the size, growth, and breeding requirements. Would 300 gallons would be enough for LMB to reach maturity and breed even while also removing fish to eat?

I'm totally fascinated by your set up and have wanted to do this for years but I've been apartment bound since 2000.

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#12 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:02 PM

Use of any species as a food production animal requires control over reproduction. I spend far more effort trying to stop reproduction in my food-fish production systems than trying to promote it. In such a small confines even tilapia would be hard pressed to reproduce at levels that enable at least some of the young reaching an acceptable harvest size, one small spawn would be too much. If you are willing to consume a fish when only 3 or 4 inches long then many other species could be considered. My dream experiment would be with inland silversides. You can eat the whole critter

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#13 Guest_centrarchid_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:31 PM

mrgrackle,

I work with bluegill as a food-fish. They can reach >1 pound in 18 months in central Missouri using diets formulated for channel catfish. Key to success was use of belt feeders. Bluegill nearly continous feeders under optimal conditions.

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#14 Guest_mrgrackle_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 02:53 PM

Wow, a deluge of post... thanks guys (and gals?).

I really like the idea of raising channel cats and I've seriously considered it in the past. My main concerns with them is breeding and sourcing them. Breeding isn't a huge deal if I can catch fry or fingerlings and grow them out to eating size, that works for me. My only problem with that is that I'm a terrible fisherman.... why do y ou think I've got a tank full of bluegill

I do love the taste of catfish and from what I understand they will readly take a wide variety of food.. even mulberries! I've also read that catfish have a great food to weight growth ratio

If I wanted to go 'catch a mess of channel cats' is that realistic this time of year in texas? I know cats like deep holes and I'm not sure exactly how to catch a bunch of catfish fry or fingerlings. I have found a source for farm raised catfish fingerlings at like $.40 ($.30? I can't remember the exact number) a fish but I'd really like to not have to rely on something like that.

Truely, I'd love to raise catfish but not sure how to go about catching them. How much bigger then the bluegill would the catfish have to be before they start eating the bluegill? I think it would be pretty neat to have cats and gills. Would be a nice to have a variety of fish to choose from for dinner

I guess if they cats ate the bluegill then that's just that much I don't have to feed them.

Irate - I don't know the exact size of the gravel. I got it for free. A friend works at a church school/daycare and a company donated a bunch of gravel to them for their playground. My buddy asked them if they'd bring enough extra to fill up 4 or 5 x 55 gal. barrels and I'd pay them. They said not to worry about it.. free of charge. I was happy, but I don't know exactly what sized gravel it is. Whatever they use on playgrounds under swings, etc. It's not super fine.

Michael - I really like that idea but I have my doubts I could maintain such an ecosystem in a 300 gal. tank with enough food fish to make it worth while... basically I think the bluegill (or catfish if I decide that route) would eat the shiners faster then they could reproduce. Even if they lay eggs I think the other fish would eat those as well.

puchisapo - I'd love to be able to do tilapia but my tank dips under the cold tolerance of even O. aureaus during the winter. In the mornings the tanks been around 10 C on average. It's been down a bit further as well on really cold nights. I think I'd end up with some fish-cicles.

centrarchid - bass would be fun but I think it would be hard to provide them with a food source they want in an abundance they want and still have the feeding costs be reasonable. Even if I went out and caught their dinner for them I'd be afraid how much time it would consume.

You all rock.

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#15 Guest_arnoldi_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 07:51 PM

Chicken liver or cutbait on a circle hook with a sinker. Pretty much any decent sized body of water will have catfish and I think they are even easier than bluegill to catch.
I was thinking channel or flathead instead of bullhead just because their growth rate should be faster due to their larger maximum size.

How about crawdads? They taste good.

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#16 Guest_mrgrackle_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 09:23 PM

Chicken liver or cutbait on a circle hook with a sinker. Pretty much any decent sized body of water will have catfish and I think they are even easier than bluegill to catch.
I was thinking channel or flathead instead of bullhead just because their growth rate should be faster due to their larger maximum size.

How about crawdads? They taste good.

I don't want to catch full grown catfish though. I'd want to catcha bunch of fry/fingerlings and grow them out. I just went a looked at the law... it looks like the minimum length for channel catfish I can keep is 12 inches? I guess that means I can't collect channel cat fry/fingerlings. There's no limits on bullheads, but they're realatively small compared to channel cats. I guess they still get bigger then bluegill and probably grow faster. i just don't know how I would go about catching a bunch of catfish fry/fingerlings. On top of that, how the heck am I supposed to be able to tell the difference between channel and bullhead fry? I think catfish would be impossible to get to breed in a 300 gal. tank. I've read bullheads dig tunnels... I've read that catfish take a lot of room to breed.

hehehehe crawdads have crossed my mind. I know folks in Australia raise a type of crawfish called yabbies. How many crawfish could I grow in a 300 gal stock tank? It's 63-1/4 in L x 69 in W x 25 in H.

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#17 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 09:41 PM

Channel catfish seem like the perfect choice but I'm only speculating. Since they have been part of aquaculture for as long as they have, I'd guess much info is available about raising them.

I'm not sure how far you are from San Marcos but a hatchery there raises channel catfish. I suspect you buy them small and cheap. http://www.tpwd.stat...es/aewood.phtml

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#18 Guest_fishlvr_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 09:58 PM

I don't want to catch full grown catfish though. I'd want to catcha bunch of fry/fingerlings and grow them out. I just went a looked at the law... it looks like the minimum length for channel catfish I can keep is 12 inches? I guess that means I can't collect channel cat fry/fingerlings. There's no limits on bullheads, but they're realatively small compared to channel cats. I guess they still get bigger then bluegill and probably grow faster. i just don't know how I would go about catching a bunch of catfish fry/fingerlings. On top of that, how the heck am I supposed to be able to tell the difference between channel and bullhead fry? I think catfish would be impossible to get to breed in a 300 gal. tank. I've read bullheads dig tunnels... I've read that catfish take a lot of room to breed.

hehehehe crawdads have crossed my mind. I know folks in Australia raise a type of crawfish called yabbies. How many crawfish could I grow in a 300 gal stock tank? It's 63-1/4 in L x 69 in W x 25 in H.

In the summer, go to a pond with bullheads in it. You'll see huge black clouds of baby bullheads. Channel cats don't pack like this AFAIK. Bullheads will also dig out nests like sunfish if tunnels are not an option. If your breeding them for food, they grow like crazy on cichlid pellets, and probably even faster on trout chow. They don't get as big, so you can grow more in a smaller amount of space. Also, keep them cool after they reach eating size. If the water is allowed in the mid-upper 70's they start to taste kind of bland, IME.

Crawdads are extremely cannibilistic if not given enough room and hiding places. They especially like to snack on their newly molted bretheren, so my guess is you wouldn't be able to raise as many as you think. You would also have to have separate tanks for different sizes if you want good production.

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#19 Guest_rjmtx_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:43 PM

I'm not sure how far you are from San Marcos but a hatchery there raises channel catfish. I suspect you buy them small and cheap. http://www.tpwd.stat...es/aewood.phtml

Unfortunately, the state quit selling fish to the people a few years ago. Now you have to get them from private pond stockers, which there are plenty of around. Just google "fish farm texas."

Since we're talking collecting food fish and whatnot, I guess I'll throw the laws out there just in case... For all sunfish there is no bag or length limit, but since they're game fish, must be taken by hook and line. Channel cats have to be a foot long, but you can keep up to 25. Of course, you need a fishing license. Here's a link to the regs http://www.tpwd.stat...ex.phtml#limits

I'd just hate to see you popped for poaching by the game warden just for trying to stock a few fish.

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#20 Guest_juscuz_*

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:24 PM

Unfortunately, the state quit selling fish to the people a few years ago. Now you have to get them from private pond stockers, which there are plenty of around. Just google "fish farm texas."

Since we're talking collecting food fish and whatnot, I guess I'll throw the laws out there just in case... For all sunfish there is no bag or length limit, but since they're game fish, must be taken by hook and line. Channel cats have to be a foot long, but you can keep up to 25. Of course, you need a fishing license. Here's a link to the regs http://www.tpwd.stat...ex.phtml#limits

I'd just hate to see you popped for poaching by the game warden just for trying to stock a few fish.

What does the law say if you buy the catfish fingerling's from a fish hatchery? Is that a totally different ball game?