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Methods of collecting


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#1 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:12 AM

Ok, my trip to the stream last night was anything but eventfull. I've been going to Silver Creek in Madison County in central KY, a tributary of the KY River (edit for location). For starters, some punks stole my trap. I did net a tiny smallmouth and I also netted a 3in tessellated darter...and a few minnows, but all together this was not a great trip. So, I'm beginning to wonder how it happens....where's the magic? I mean, I'm in a stream on a solid rock bed, 50-60 feet wide and about 3in deep. The entire bed has thousands of fish swimming (mostly minnows) and I'm lucky to catch 5. I found a school of darters in a rocky, faster moving part and "hunted" them for 30 minutes before I finally netted one. I mean, what methods do you guys use? I have a dip net, but I'm thinking the nettting may be too big (some minnows get stuck in the netting).

So, what I'm seekings is method that some of you may use when you are collecting alone. What are some of the things you take with you? What do you look for in a collecting site? How to you actually get the fish in the net?

Edited by jblaylock, 08 July 2008 - 07:36 AM.


#2 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:24 AM

The location of your collecting site would be helpful.
(And please add a signature file if you would.)

I have been to sites that sound similar to what you described. In northern Alabama, in a stream flowing south into the Tennessee River, I saw schools of Whitetail Shiners. The schools saw me too. For that site, I would need a team of 4 healthy people and the biggest seine that is legal. Two would work the net, and two would have to chase the fish into the net. I did try by myself with a 4 foot seine and never got close to catching a fish.

#3 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 07:37 AM

I don't know what a signature file is

#4 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:15 AM

I don't know what a signature file is


Look at the bottom of my answer. My signature is
Philip Kukulski
Clinton River Watershed, Great Lakes
Detroit, Michigan

To add one for yourself
Click where it says My Controls (near the top of the page)
Then click Edit Signature (listed on the left of the page)

#5 Guest_edbihary_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:28 AM

I don't know what a signature file is

http://forum.nanfa.o...=UserCP&CODE=22

#6 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:50 AM

Ok, I have the signature on now.

Back to the topic. what do some of you do when collecting alone?

#7 Guest_drewish_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:06 AM

You can get a 4-6' seine and use the solo method. Or just dipnet as you were. Darters, sculpins, and madtoms are relatively easy with a dipnet. You just set up downstream of rocks and kick into the net. It is a hit or miss with more missing than anything. It helps that you can visually see that there are fish are in the area.

As for shiners, they are damn near impossible to collect solo. If you are able to trap some between you and another object or a river bank then you can get them.

#8 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:19 AM

Ok, I have the signature on now.

Back to the topic. what do some of you do when collecting alone?



Ok, I editied the sig. but it's not showing up

#9 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:49 AM

Ok, I editied the sig. but it's not showing up


Actually your sig is showing up as the settings allow. Signatures only show in the first post of that particular member in each topic. This means less scrolling :cool2:

I agree with Drew about kicking downstream into your net. When I sample (alone or with partners) I try to sample every part of the stream. If there are undercut banks, deep riffle, shallow riffle, small rock, large rock, sand, leaf litter, fast water, slow water, log jams...You get the idea. I try and sample all of it in hopes I will find different fish.

As far as equipment while alone....a good dipnet like the "perfect dipnet" or the cummings net (which can be referenced throughout the forum) are a must have. I also rely heavily on a 4' x 4' seine. Phil Kukulski wrote an excellent how to in AC about a one man seine. I use something very similar to Phil's net. You can buy back issues of AC click here. Maybe Phil will post the issue # with his article. Just another reason to join NANFA guys and gals! So much good stuff in each issue of American Currents and don't forget all of the great grants.

#10 Guest_Doug_Dame_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:38 AM

So, what I'm seekings is method that some of you may use when you are collecting alone. What are some of the things you take with you? What do you look for in a collecting site? How to you actually get the fish in the net?

Hands down / no question / without a doubt ==> the best improvement in collecting results you can make is to ==> join up with one or more experienced NANFA'ns for a day trip, and watch what they do.

With a dip net, many fast-moving minnows in open water can only be caught by luck. You improve the odds if you can find a narrow channel they go through, or chase them into a shallow area where they have limited escape routes. If you are by yourself (seeking minnows), a 4ft wide creek is a whole lot more likely to be workable than a 20-yd wide creek, you have to select the terrain that improves your odds. Some shiners (e.g., many of the Pternotropis) will school near a downed tree or little riffle in a particular place where the current is just so ... make a fast scoop to catch some, and the rest will likely return to the same happy spot in a minute or two, so you can try again.

Usually if you want more than a random shiner here or there, you need a buddy or two and a seine. (And again, go with some experienced folks to see how they use the gear in a variety of situations.)

#11 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:46 AM

Uland Thomas
Thanks for the plug.

Uniseine Version 4.0
American Currents Vol 34, No. 1, pp7-8
Winter (Feb.) 2008

#12 Guest_Irate Mormon_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 10:32 PM

Doug is right on the money. I use a dipnet 99% of the time. You need to go with someone who can show you good habitat and good technique.

#13 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:13 PM

Going solo with a seine 4 x 6 feet or larger can be tiring, but one method I use that works well is to make one pole stationary by pushing it into the bottom if soft or setting a few good sized rocks around the one pole, then take the other pole and slowly work it out straight then curve around in a semi-circle back near enough to the other pole to grab it with one hand. Grab that pole, pull it quickly free and back quickly with a pole in each hand either to shore or a few fast steps and haul the net up and out of the water. Turning the beginning speed up sometimes helps but not always. I've always wanted to try making a pole stake like a long tent stake with a couple partial rings to hold the one pole till ready to pull it in.

#14 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:14 PM

A Perfect Dipnet is not legal for bait in Michigan. The net has sides.

It is legal to land fish that you hooked.

#15 Guest_teleost_*

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Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:24 PM

A Perfect Dipnet is not legal for bait in Michigan. The net has sides.

It is legal to land fish that you hooked.



Dipnets/bag-seines are not legal in Michigan?

#16 Guest_uniseine_*

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 09:18 AM

Dipnets/bag-seines are not legal in Michigan?


"hand nets not
over 8 feet square and without sides or walls;"

From
2008 Michigan Fishing Guide
http://www.michigan....ed_229820_7.pdf

Minnows For Personal Use: See VHS information on pages 14-15.
Minnows for personal use only may be taken with hook and line, seines,
may only be taken during the open season for trout by hook and line or
minnow traps. Minnows may not be taken from Big Glen L., Hatlem Cr.
(Leelanau Co.), Portage L., Torch L., the North and South Portage Canal
(Houghton Co.), in that portion of L. Superior west of Big Bay Point or
any of their tributaries for 1/2 mile above their mouths. Gear restrictions
are as follows: Seines must not be over 12 feet by 4 feet; hand nets not
over 8 feet square and without sides or walls; and minnow traps not over
24 inches long. Minnow traps must bear userís name and address. Cast
nets (not exceeding 8 feet in diameter without walls or sides) may be
used to take minnows, alewife, smelt, and shad in the Great Lakes,
L. St. Clair, and the Detroit R., St. Clair R., and St. Marys R.
Spearing: Hand, rubber, or spring-propelled spears may be used

#17 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 11:50 AM

Going solo with a seine 4 x 6 feet or larger can be tiring, but one method I use that works well is to make one pole stationary by pushing it into the bottom if soft or setting a few good sized rocks around the one pole, then take the other pole and slowly work it out straight then curve around in a semi-circle back near enough to the other pole to grab it with one hand. Grab that pole, pull it quickly free and back quickly with a pole in each hand either to shore or a few fast steps and haul the net up and out of the water. Turning the beginning speed up sometimes helps but not always. I've always wanted to try making a pole stake like a long tent stake with a couple partial rings to hold the one pole till ready to pull it in.



Sounds like an interesting strategy. How's your success rate with this method?

#18 Guest_keepnatives_*

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Posted 09 July 2008 - 06:55 PM

Sounds like an interesting strategy. How's your success rate with this method?

Actually works very well, much better then a dip net in wide open water with fast fish. Snags can get to be a pain though and it wears you out fast too. I'd always rather have a few other fish nuts along but it just doesn't always work out that way so you do what you gotta do.

#19 Guest_netmaker_*

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Posted 11 July 2008 - 11:32 PM

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Just a question :

What is the turbidity like in these streams, creeks ,etc. ?

I know you all are using really mini -seines and such and that length is regulated by each state.


There is a seining method known as Scottish Seining. It involves what we call Cloud Fishing.
The idea is to distrurb enough sediment on either side of the seine to scare fish into running away from the mud cloud .

the seine has enormous leads made up of weighted rubber discs that extend 1/4 th the length of the seine. Fish running from the clouds scare into the calm area or clear area in the seine's bunt section. this eliminates the need for monstrously long seines........as rubber discs and a cable are less weight and bulk than a panel of web . It also by-passes the law on seine length as there is NO netting involved in the leads of the net.

Now, this is monstrous compared to what you all are doing, but could the concept of a 8' seine with no pocket but a designed "belly of netting", be deployed with a lead of small chain to stir to the bottom. The net could be anchored to the side of the stream and the lead swept around and in front .

Do these small specimens spook when they see a mud cloud ?

Is there sufficient clearance on the sediment to run a light chain?


Plan B

The pix above shows a Bristle Seine. The idea is to pick and poke into the crevices and such to run fish. It was primarily used in big outdoor ponds to load up fingerlings that like to hide behind air stones, vacuums and pipes. As you can see in this particular net, the mesh is 4mm square mesh for maximum movement in water and reduced gilling of fingerlings.

sa va,
netmaker

#20 Guest_daveneely_*

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Posted 12 July 2008 - 08:12 PM

hey netmaker,

I've seen schools of minnows run into disturbed silt clouds, and if you can stir up a little slit in a pool before you seine it, you'll often do much better than a clear-water haul.

For slack water with lots of crevices, that bristle brush is intriguing, though in current it would be a PIA to use and I suspect it would cause the net to lift off the bottom.

I've been playing around with a short bag seine lately (6x20', but with larger mesh side panels and a larger bag than normal), that I've really gotten attached to. It's amazing how much difference that bag makes for catch rate. I'd almost like to try a 5x10'er with a bag (the next logical step?) and it would eliminate the need for a third person to mind the bag...

cheers,
Dave



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