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#41 Guest_bumpylemon_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 01:56 PM

Kanus, I agree with what you said 100% and the smug elitism and rudeness you describe is a big reason why I don't post around here anymore. I've been on this forum since it began, the 20th person to join or something like that. As I recall I was invited here, I started bonding with people like Uland and "Skipjack" (where is he?) on other forums such as WaterWolves and AquaticPredators and I seem to remember this originally being just a generic native fish forum at first, not affiliated with NANFA (correct me if I'm wrong). It kinda burns me that I've been here so long and was invited to join and now the forum is starting to lock out non-members from certain sections. The Trading Dock is only the beginning I predict. But I understand the reasons why and if that is what NANFA needs to do in order to get more members than so be it. I have long been asked why I have yet to become a NANFA member and I will admit a part of that is my own laziness but honestly if the organization's membership is anything like the elitism I see around here I don't think I want to join and that is why I haven't. Because I'm just an average everyday fish enthusiast; no Government job or pHD. If I don't feel welcome here how would I fare at the conventions (if I could attend them, I can't). I see new people constantly bullied on this forum and it isn't doing any good for the organization in my eyes.

EDIT: Now I'll await my negative rating to only further alienate me from the forum.



i see his point totally. at least im not in denial about the elitism. its making me question my paid membership now as well. i almost feel intimidated not to go to a conference. luckily ive gotten to know a few members on here who are just awesome and i am in constant contact with. skipjack is back! all and all this is a good place to be. its good to have open discussions like this as well. helps better the community. the trading dock from what ive seen has been more utilized by non paying members than NANFA Members. maybe that goes back to the..." i have all the access to any fish i want so i dont wanna offer anything up" people. which i do know exist here. some members here wouldnt go out of their way to help someone out to get a fish. people who know me know that if i can get something for them i try. ive been out 8 hours a day almost for the last 2 weeks catching stuff for members on this forum.....only 2 are NANFA members. and i appreciate them going out for me as well. what i think this forum needs is a bonding seminar, joking of course...but it wouldnt hurt.

#42 Guest_ashtonmj_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 03:49 PM

A country club, really? I could not disagree more with those first three statements about exclusivity that you just posted Jim, sorry just my opinion.

Of the moderators, only three or four that I can think of work professionally in a fish field and hold advanced degrees. Furthermore, I can think of only FIVE active forum and NANFA members that hold PhD's, so this educational elitism from the pulpit frankly does not exist. This is becoming sad because people are digging into their trenches and trying to get in the last word.

Here is an additional example that I think debunks some of the elitism being claimed. I shared a link last week in a topic that directed people to a point and click, interactive website that is joined to a database that contains over 3,000 locations that have been sampled for stream fishes in the State of Maryland. Am I required to do this as part of my job or membership standing? The answer is no; in fact, there are very few Marylanders active on this board and multiple press release events had taken place to promote the website. Instead, I took the time to share an advanced resource with this group, which many states (Ohio, Virginia, Maine to name a few) also have but I'm guessing people don't take the time to use. How much discussion did it get, ZERO replies and 89 views. Even if you are not a Marylander and have no direct way to use this information (exact dot on an exact map), anyone looking for similar fish in regional states could see a picture of the habitat, know what other fish are found with a target fish, the water quality, etc. So why should I continue to contribute...? No one is apparently interested because there wasn't a collecting report, pictures, something unidentified, or anecdotes from an observation.

#43 Guest_Jim_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 04:05 PM

No need to be sorry, Matt. That was just observations as i see them, nothing from the trenches at all :biggrin:

As I said this is a wonderful and useful organization, and is based on sound principles, that i have come to admire, and even tell every hobbyist i speak with about.

I truly admire all the knowledge, and effort to get it out, i know its helped me, sorry if i stepped on any toes.


#44 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 06:57 PM

Well it seems I'm wrong and elitism is a major problem with recruitment. Any suggestions how the forum can fix this.
While I'm interested in all responses, I'm particularly interested in hearing from Bumpy, Jim and Sandtiger.

#45 Guest_bumpylemon_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:05 PM

Well it seems I'm wrong and elitism is a major problem with recruitment. Any suggestions how the forum can fix this.
While I'm interested in all responses, I'm particularly interested in hearing from Bumpy, Jim and Sandtiger.


well i feel now that i have established myself over the year. well i hope i did anyway. i think maybe we should just be more tolerant. maybe have a "newbie" section for IDs and we can just know that that sort of thing is going to happen. we should accept that people are gonna be new and have dumb questions. ill sacrifice myself to be the one that "educates" them or redirects them to use google or to use the search function. we do have a section on here for "general discussions" as well as "scientific discussions" so that could be confusing as well when people say "well thats not a thought provoked well in depth answer or solution...well thats why its in the gen section. every thread or post doesnt have to be smart and witty. ill admit i know crap compared to say matt ashton. i read some of his posts and im like WTF does that mean. to me the mans a genius. we have to understand that some people are just people that wanna keep fish and may not care about specific details of why this or why that. all and all i think the forum is well run. i wish that more people would post pictures of their tanks and trips. i love being able to see places i cant go or havent been yet. esp you field guys. i see on your facebooks you guys have great pics! maybe post them here so people can learn and appreciate.

#46 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:44 PM

well i feel now that i have established myself over the year. well i hope i did anyway. i think maybe we should just be more tolerant. maybe have a "newbie" section for IDs and we can just know that that sort of thing is going to happen. we should accept that people are gonna be new and have dumb questions. ill sacrifice myself to be the one that "educates" them or redirects them to use google or to use the search function. we do have a section on here for "general discussions" as well as "scientific discussions" so that could be confusing as well when people say "well thats not a thought provoked well in depth answer or solution...well thats why its in the gen section. every thread or post doesnt have to be smart and witty. ill admit i know crap compared to say matt ashton. i read some of his posts and im like WTF does that mean. to me the mans a genius. we have to understand that some people are just people that wanna keep fish and may not care about specific details of why this or why that. all and all i think the forum is well run. i wish that more people would post pictures of their tanks and trips. i love being able to see places i cant go or havent been yet. esp you field guys. i see on your facebooks you guys have great pics! maybe post them here so people can learn and appreciate.


"i think maybe we should just be more tolerant"
But where do we draw the line? We lose the interest of longtime NANFA members when the forum is filled with chatter and the forum should be for them too.

Personally, I never thought that treating new members differently was right. That smacks of elitism to me and I think all people should aspire to greater knowledge (especially myself). Treating new members by stuffing them in a dumbed down section of the forum just doesn't sit well with me but I'm listening. While I try and go with my gut on such matters, I really am willing to listen to ideas.

Sure every post doesn't have to be smart/witty but effort shows. It's no surprise lack of effort when evident puts long time NANFA members off. Again, I really don't think everything has to be perfect here but we've lost the interest of people that evoke thought and made this forum interesting to myself and many that joined in the first place. Will new people show up once the forum is just like the forums that have been criticized here recently? What will captivate them and will people gain valuable information from a forum where very experienced people will not post?

When I joined NANFA I didn't know much (still don't) and I was quite frankly intimidated. I thought I saw elitism but I was just intimidated plain and simple. My spine was out of sorts for a while but I became inspired to learn more and here I am, just a guy who likes fish and an appetite to learn. I guess I knew better than to spam the email list with my newb stuff. Instead I sat back and soaked up the great information the collective of NANFA was willing to share. That was enough for me, I didn't want to bring the level of discussion down....well just enough so I could understand but even then I had to look up tons of stuff from discussions in books (still do) but that's me..I want to learn more.

#47 Guest_bumpylemon_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:57 PM

Uland you are right. i think we shouldnt dumb down the forum. i was just thinking about it...i do want the best of the best on this forum to keep content high. i consider myself and mike high up on the totem poll of MA fish and i think that benefits this region. i know that i have helped out local members here considerably....and i now believe i should have been more cautious with my info that i have learned...

#48 Guest_natureman187_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 07:59 PM

...The common Native fish keeper dont give a hoot on hell about the scientific babble that spews out of your face...

Neither does anyone on MFK. As already stated, this forum is not of that caliber.

Itís the people that make any organization. Organizations are defined by their membership. Politically correct or not for commenting, eleitist or not for caring, someone must be responsible for keeping the organization above the scum line.

#49 Guest_Brooklamprey_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 08:03 PM

Neither does anyone on MFK. As already stated, this forum is not of that caliber.

Itís the people that make any organization. Organizations are defined by their membership. Politically correct or not for commenting, eleitist or not for caring, someone must be responsible for keeping the organization above the scum line.


Lance that is the best statement so far... That is the goal and concept..

#50 Guest_sandtiger_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 09:39 PM

Why is all that I've read above aloud to happen? I've seen better threads shut down for less. At least the reputation system is getting it's use.

As most of you should know I'm no fan of MFK and the last thing I want is for this forum to go down that path. At the same time I feel this place should be more accommodating to newbs and "kids" because 1) All of us were there once (some act like they still are) and 2) Resources regarding native fishes are scarce. I would rather deal with a kids stupid bass questions than shrug him off where he will then turn to places like MFK or forget the hobby all together. I don't think threads should be aloud to derail and if someone obviously doesn't have a real passion for the hobby, give 'em the boot. I think some sort of middle ground can be met between free-for-all forums like MFK and the current state NANFA is in. If seasoned members don't want to deal with newbs...ignore the threads, it's a forum; you can choose what to read and be apart of.

#51 Guest_Uland_*

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 10:27 PM

Why is all that I've read above aloud to happen? I've seen better threads shut down for less. At least the reputation system is getting it's use.

As most of you should know I'm no fan of MFK and the last thing I want is for this forum to go down that path. At the same time I feel this place should be more accommodating to newbs and "kids" because 1) All of us were there once (some act like they still are) and 2) Resources regarding native fishes are scarce. I would rather deal with a kids stupid bass questions than shrug him off where he will then turn to places like MFK or forget the hobby all together. I don't think threads should be aloud to derail and if someone obviously doesn't have a real passion for the hobby, give 'em the boot. I think some sort of middle ground can be met between free-for-all forums like MFK and the current state NANFA is in. If seasoned members don't want to deal with newbs...ignore the threads, it's a forum; you can choose what to read and be apart of.


About the first part of your reply - Sort of like a tank with too much pressure. I think sometimes it's best to just let it all out and clean up the mess later. Sure it's a bit ugly but we'll survive.

Middle ground is what I'm looking for here Arthur. How do we get there? I will say there is a point where the nonsense posts/threads simply make the forum unpleasant. So how do we reduce the nonsense to a point where experienced NANFA members are not dissuaded from participating while making the authors of nonsense feel welcome? BTW I'm not gonna call these authors new members or newbs since some new members are very careful about flooding the forum with nonsense. They seem to make an effort to study the question at hand and then come with questions or comments.




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