Fishing patterns/fish migration

I've had this question for a long time now...this little pool of water in the creek where I catch my fish in central missouri...always has longears and greensunfish in it...this pool is about 5-7 deep around a root wad...other species are mostly shiners and creek chub...I visit this place probably only like 3 times a year at most...other than that I only have access to man made lakes...
Whenever I fish in the summer...its full of life. Lots of sunnies etc...all other fish are around too...including darters...but when I visit in the winter...all the fish thats left is minnows and creekchubs...(usually the darters are there too)....

I am thinking sure the sunnies have moved on to the deeper part of the river from this creek...but is this a normal pattern for sunfish or did they just get washed further down to the river when the creek water rises?
During these cold months I have never caught any longears in these shallow creeks and pools...have any of you?

Most of the longears I catch at this place looks stunted...including the only longear I have right now(is there a way to "round" him out or is his body shape pretty much like that?) Probably not many predators in that pool of water so they got overcrowded...

Also in regards to the darters...I'm not sure but I think they are rainbows...they are usually there in the creek in 2-3 inches of water...but this christmas I visited none was to be seen...this was the first time I didn't see any darters...did they migrated? or died out? I was upset to see lots of trash from people camping there...boxes of beer...cans etc...DOG SHAMPOO BOTTLE! (still with some in it)...and worse I found a bottle of motor oil half spilling into the water(I know it must be them ATVers )

Hi Bear,

Great observation. Nearly ever species of riverine fish makes some kind of movement through the season. Sunfish classically congregate at prime locations downstream under larger rootwads and so forth. I've also seen this in reverse, where a single large storm event that allowed pumpkinseed, never found above a dam here at campus, to by pass the dam on the floodplain and suddenly appear in mass 11 river miles upstream.

The minnows and darters you see there in the winter may not be the fish you see in the summer. They could be from even further upstream.

Or, in an extreme case, like the Fed listed and probably extinct Scioto madtom, may be moving into a smaller stream from a larger one. The only fish ever captured were found in the winter months in an easily wadable stream that was surveyed extensively. The theory is that they were coming from the mainstem Scioto River and overwintering in Darby Creek.

This is why lowhead dams have such a negative impact on the fish fauna. It's not just the big migratory species like suckers that get stopped. It's everyone. Even if it's just prohibitive moving pool to pool.

Todd

Just to add an observation, this time of year I frequently find Lepomis laying on their sides under rocks, sometimes with their tails sticking out. I can frequently catch them by hand by reaching under layered shale banks.

It might be possible to get your longear to round out. It seems to me that much of this body shape is influenced by how much the sunfish gets to eat when they are real small.

Longears often don't seem to eat worms in aquariums, but that would be your best bet to start this guy on bulking up. Try a few of different types of worms. Nightcrawlers would be best if it will take them, broken into small pieces. I have used all the small redworm types, and never had a problem, but there is some word out there that some of these are raised in manure and bad for fish. I found the least offensive to fish picky about worms are the "regular angle worm". They are light pinkish towards a tan color. They don't writhe and wriggle much when broken up. These are usually the common worm you find after heavy rains on paved surfaces.

Trying frozen shrimp would probably work, get salad shrimp. They are cheap, canned ones even work. They are low in some other things since theirs nothing to them but meat. Balance this with the prepared foods it might eat.

Gutloaded crickets can help too. Gutloaded means that you feed your crickets some good veggies before they are fed to the fish. You can keep a couple dozen crickets in a plastic tub with rabbit pellets for substrate, a few paper egg cartons for them to hide on. Put in an orange slice for moisture and vitamins, and set some dark greens on a tray for them to munch on. You can dust them with powdered vitamins and most of this will stick to the cricket until the sunfish can get it down.

Lastly, small minnows that are gut loaded might work well too. Keep them in some container where they will start feeding. Using a real high quality flake food stuff them before you feed them to the sunfish.

Best would be a combination of all these things, at very least once a day pack the sunfish full so it cannot eat anymore.

Ray or maybe Brian too...

Does that fish look like a spawned out male to you? IE he spent all last summer being sexy and forgot to eat? That opercular flap and head is enormous compared to the body for a "prime of life" fish.

That was the first thing that occurred to me when I saw the picture, I forgot to add it to my reply.

Has anyone ever recusitated a fish from that kind of condition? Usually they've hormonally gone into starvation mode, which will process food differently.

I guess my point is... I would moderate the feeding at first until you see positive feedback in the body. It's like when someone has been starving, you can't let them eat all they want... They just puke it back up and make their situation worse. You literally have to wean them back on to food.

I think nightcrawler chunks are probably the way to go. The shrimp (or frozen krill), if he is in fact, in this kind of condition, may really whack him with the salt. Once he's better, yeah I'd go with that rich kind of food. But like I said, I'd moderate for now.

Todd

I have caught some nicer bigger ones but released them back...and kept this one cause I like his big ear flap...lol...right now he's feeding on Hikari Blood Worms, flakes, Cichild pellets and egg white(one of his favs)...I might try the shrimp stuff later on...right now I am trying to culture some scuds and also breed some ghost shrimp...but so far nothing yet...

Skipjack...I have to keep that in mind if I go back to that creek...cause theres one spot where theres some layered shale...I did see 3 12-13inch bass stuck in that pool of water...was trying to hard to catch em but all I had was a 15 ft cane pole and 15ft of line....couldn't coax them closer...

Anyway I have always wanted to find some really rounded big humped male sunnies but havent seen any yet...do you guys find these traits only in mature bull males? or have any of you found any young smaller males with that hump on the head and round body shape(I know genetics play a part too...but I think with the right amount of food source it can help).

I really love this lil guy though...he got really used to me and even lets me lift him out of the water.


Forgot to add...right now on my list of must have is a pair of waders...and a nice dip net...cause this has prevented me from searching the other pools further up and lower down from that root wad...and my net now is just a tiny 6 inch wide net with a long handle lol. I do have an 8ft wide seine but havent got a chance to use it yet. I really just have to look around my home area here to see if theres any creek I can sample fish instead of just waiting to go back to that same creek...where I live now is mostly suburban...in Kansas City...so most are man made lakes...

I would agree todd he does look like he had a lot more bulk in the past since the head and opercle flap are so large. What is the known history of this fish? how long have you had it and how big was it when captured and so forth? or did you give this and I missed it...

I catch central long ears all the time. Most of the ones I catch are young and elongate and not the typical sunfish look. But I think they grow out of this but it seems yours did not for some reason.

Ray or maybe Brian too...

Does that fish look like a spawned out male to you? IE he spent all last summer being sexy and forgot to eat? That opercular flap and head is enormous compared to the body for a "prime of life" fish.

That was the first thing that occurred to me when I saw the picture, I forgot to add it to my reply.

Has anyone ever recusitated a fish from that kind of condition? Usually they've hormonally gone into starvation mode, which will process food differently.

I guess my point is... I would moderate the feeding at first until you see positive feedback in the body. It's like when someone has been starving, you can't let them eat all they want... They just puke it back up and make their situation worse. You literally have to wean them back on to food.

I think nightcrawler chunks are probably the way to go. The shrimp (or frozen krill), if he is in fact, in this kind of condition, may really whack him with the salt. Once he's better, yeah I'd go with that rich kind of food. But like I said, I'd moderate for now.

Todd

Todd and bearskookums,

The fish looks like he could be a spawned-out male. I don't know. He does look stunted, though. Sorry to be the harbinger of disappointing news but in my personal experience, I've never un-stunted a fish. In fact, I currently have a tank of culls that at one point in the past received less than their adequate ammount of food. They have stopped growing. I can feed them as much as they can eat and they look healthy but they just don't get any bigger. Sorry to share this disappointing news. My advice to you, bearskookums, would be to follow Todd's advice and prove to us that "un-stunting" can be done! Hope this helps.

Hi guys thanks for the good advice...I've had this fish since last summer...but when I caught it he looks just about the same...most of the lil guys I caught look like that...could be the genetics...or could be that there was so many of them there wasn't enough food for them all and thus got stunted...right now I just concentrate on feeding it good food...how often do you guys feed your sunnies?

I've had this fish since last summer...but when I caught it he looks just about the same...

Ah, this should have actually been my question He may well just be an skinny old man.

I think its interesting though that you're seeing all age classes appear this way. Sunfish are really plastic (better word would be silly putty) to environmental changes across generations, and if a food source dries up, they successful breeders will be a smaller size class. Did something change in the watershed recently? Gravel mining, a new subdivision, a dam for a lake for a subdivision, something pretty invasive like that?

In any case, I'd go ahead with the rich diet, and I'd stuff him full 3 or 4 times a week.

Todd

Just to add an observation, this time of year I frequently find Lepomis laying on their sides under rocks, sometimes with their tails sticking out. I can frequently catch them by hand by reaching under layered shale banks.

Is it April first already? (This is the first that I ever heard of this behavior. Interesting.)

I've been feeding my longear with hikari bloodworms and a mix of flakes and pellets...and he seems to be bulking up a little more...was just wondering how often do you feed your fish? in this case a longear?
Here's some pics...
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Wow, he's looking much better! I'd just keep doing what you're doing. He's obviously recovering fats.

Todd