Edited by Lotsapetsgarfhts, 01 August 2010 - 02:04 PM.
Lawyers for Spring Pygmy Sunfish
Posted 15 August 2010 - 07:14 AM
Yes, this is exactly what all parties to this fiasco have pretended doesn't exist, up to this point. The FWS doesn't receive the funding to do everything they're charged with, which is where federal courts enter the picture as a means of forcing the government to fund this kind of work. That's the end-all, be-all of this kind suit.
They could sell the land without any ESA issues kicking in. In addition, when a proposed road/development will impact an aquatic resource (stream/wetland) the Corps of Enginners may have jurisdicition. If the owner/developer needs a Corps permit, the Corps is required to ensure that the Section 7 (ESA) consultation with the USFWS is completed. So the Corps, if other proactive efforts fail, may be another agency for fish-centric folks to focus efforts/comments on. Unfortunately, if the fish is on the candidate species list....it is afforded no protection until it is officially listed. So it will have to be pushed through the system fast if it will do any good. Any state-listing may assist the local DNR's permiting folks some teeth to deny permit applications. Please keep us updated, I will follow with interest and will offer what I can based on my previous experiences.
Posted 15 November 2010 - 02:48 PM
Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:31 AM
I think this is something that would be worthwhile, especially since it wouldn't require a lot of financial resources and would put NANFA into the issue. I can't imagine there would be much resistance amongst the membership.
Posted 17 November 2010 - 09:40 AM
Posted 17 November 2010 - 10:20 AM
Posted 18 November 2010 - 11:18 PM
That said, I don't know if lawyers are the best use of $$. Seems like we could go to the heart of the matter and approach the decision makers. If we know who they are. It takes persistence and connections to get more than a boilerplate response.
Posted 19 November 2010 - 12:12 AM
Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:41 AM
Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:24 AM
I personnally think thats a great idea and if put to a vote would definately vote on it.
Posted 20 November 2010 - 12:51 AM
The whole point of hiring a believable lawyer is to get a satisfactory response. Otherwise you can just mail off pointed letters yourself. I guess the same effect can be achieved by running a robust PAC and essentially buying attention from elected officials; within the limits of the law that's fine, too.
The whole point is that lawyers are not the answer. Lawyers have nothing to do with right or wrong or that outdated concept called "justice". It's a game to them - they serve masters called "law" and "winning". You are correct however in that money talks. My contention is that the kinds of decisions we are talking about are made neither by lawyers nor elected officials. You first need to identify who the decision makers actually are. Then you need the connections to get their ear. THEN you appeal to their self-interest. Right and Wrong don't enter into the picture.
Posted 13 May 2011 - 08:31 PM
Posted 16 May 2011 - 10:07 PM
I'm not specifically addressing any of the previous posts, but I want to express how inspired I am that this thread was started in the first place. It is good to know that so many of us would be willing to contribute to this effort if needed. Fund raising is certainly worth looking into, perhaps not necessarily for lawyers, but perhaps for field education programs in Limestone County, Alabama and similarly at risk areas.
I agree, especially in these economically tough times its really telling that many members would contribute money to help save this species.
Posted 18 May 2011 - 07:40 AM
Oh I did know the dam was built, I know the story, but the little darter did cause a long delay. Let's face it that habitat could be gone tomorrow if the landowner wants it gone and stands to make that much money. Well I'm glad to hear that there are people and places already maintaining them. I thought I clearly stated I wasn't interested in the fish, but that I felt a group should be formed to maintain them exchange breeding stock and distribute them. I also don't really agree with gobbling up fish before they become protected but from the looks of things protection is a long way off and the bulldosers could be filling in the spring tomorrow.
Now to answer the golden question..... "What N.A. native have hobbyists saved?" Well you might have me there, but I could probably name more than a few Goodieds. Ok yes they're Mexican and they're also probably being kept by other entities as well so I guess hobbists can't take any credit. By the way I maintained Characodon lateralis for about 14 years before I was forced to shut down the fishroom. I passed them on to a friend that still has them for a combined total of 27 years. I'll be receiving some breeding stock back from him soon. I have also decided to keep Zoogoneticus tequila long term, and may include a Skiffia and the black Characodon (the species name escapes me right now) in the future. For the record I also maintained Rivulus xhipidius PK15 for the 13 years that the fishroom was shut down (I had it for about 6 years before that) and have been told I may have the only pure stock of it in the US. They may be right since I have been looking for someone to exchange some breeding stock with and have found none that anyone could positivly say was pure stock. I just for the life of me can't understand why the concept of hobbists helping out is so offensive.
I just don't think throwing money at a lawyer is the answer unless like I stated it happens to be a member with the same passion we all seem to have, and then again hopefully he'll donate some extra time to the effort. But then again I'm just 1 new member and I guess my opinion doesn't amount to much.
There is a program called C.A.R.E.S. Thats set up for hobbyists to help protect endangered species from across the world such as lake victoria & also fish from madagascar. Im sure they wont exclude North American species. Heres a link to some info about them. I wonder if anyone had communicated with them for help? There are several species of victorian cichlids that are extirpated from the lake and only exist in hobbyist tanks now because of the introduction of the nile perch & other factors.
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