Hello Forum,

I have a question for the Forum, how long will it take to breed from orange " Rozy red " fathead minnow, Pimephales promelas, back to the coulours of the wild form of the fathead, with the dark coulours, how long will it take,to breed them back to the wild colours and is it possible?. I have 40 young " Rozy red " fathead minnow, from this summer, the biggest already 3 centimeter,but they all look the same orange as their parentz.
Casper

I think the color is a recessive trait, so if they all show it they must all have two copies each of that recessive allele, which means that the wild-type dominant color allele is probably not present in your population and isn't likely to spontaneously reappear.

i suggest going to petsmart (as they usually have at least dark grey fatheads) and buying some to breed into your line of fish, or if you could go to a lake and catch some wild fatheads (give them paristite treatment first) them put them into your tank ( a bonus is that wild fatheads are more playful and fun to watch )

Edited by Bloomonkeys, 03 October 2010 - 01:28 PM.

Thanks for both your reply's. I live in the Netherlands and the wild form of Pimephales promelas is not so common overhere... . They are found on our border with Belgium and in Belgium and Germany as well, I have to go and find them there, as in shops only Rozy reds are sold. But with a good minnow trap, I found already on this forum, it should be not so dificult to catch them. I like to see/find the wild form and enjoy as they are as you said more playful than the Rozy reds. I think I am going to do this as it will be hard and time consuming to breed back from the " Rozy red " to the wild form.

Interesting post. I thought I was the only one to think the original wild colouration of the fathead (especially the males) is far more attractive than the so-called rosy red. I had a group of the wild-colour fish for a few years and I got these by selecting them out (there were only 12) of from a batch of at least 500 rosy reds. Since then I've never seen any more and my batch are now dying from old age and I didn't breed off them..
I purchased a group of rosy reds a month ago with exactly the same intention of 'breeding out' some naturals next spring. This should be possible but could take a couple of years to build up a reasonable number. In England there are no naturalised populations of fatheads and it is now illegal to keep them in ponds - indoor aquaria only.
Mazurel, are you sure you don't have some wild-coloured amongst your fry? From the photo a few do seem to be a distinct olive colour. Let us know how they develop as they grow on.

Hi Reebock, thanks for your reply, I thought I was the only only one, thinking the natural fathead is far more attractive than the " rosy red ". Nice to find out you tried the same already, may-be I must make a bigger try with more young next year. The other fish you see on the foto are young of Notropsis lutrensis, I did breed with them as well. Until now I do not see rosy red youngsters with more natural colours, but most of them are still very small. I will breed with these next year. Catching the wild form of fathead will not be easy, just finding the right spot and than having time to catch.. . But the bottles used to catch fish do work, that I tried already. I dont know if it is not allowed to have the wild form of fathead in the pond in the Netherlands. I know it is not very smart to release them in nature in the Netherlands, because of the invasive species risk. But they are already released, so I do not see why they cannot be sold, when aquatic species are released there is no way you can get rid of them. But probably this is the reason of the reluctance of importing and selling North-American species in the Netherlands.
Because of the high costs of heating indoor tanks, people are looking for less heat demanding fish species, and there are so many North American species which are really nice coloured like N. lutipinnis, we both still looking for this species.

But these fatheads are very nice and interesing fish gold or black, with a very interesting care for the fry, I watched them busy breeding this summer, very nice to see, I enjoyed that a lot, the young on the foto are born end july and still growing fast, faster than the young of the N.lutrensis, you see as well on the foto.
Still sometimes it is hard to believe fatheads are still used as baitfish for anglers, but not in the Netherlands were this kind of fishing is prohibited.
Next year I will try breeding with the young you see on the foto and than we will see.

Forgot to say, I did found out already rosy reds are a hybrid of 3 species.

I forgot to mention that only last week I saw in an aquarium shop in London a batch of very young rosy reds (not for sale) they had bred themselves that did contain a small number of the wild colour type so it certainly can be done.Hopefully success next spring for us both. Veel geluck !
What are the 3 species you believe rosy reds are bred from? I'm only aware of two Pimaphales species.

I forgot to mention that only last week I saw in an aquarium shop in London a batch of very young rosy reds (not for sale) they had bred themselves that did contain a small number of the wild colour type so it certainly can be done.Hopefully success next spring for us both. Veel geluck !
What are the 3 species you believe rosy reds are bred from? I'm only aware of two Pimaphales species.

Thanks to some help from someone on the forum, I did receive an artikle of mr Robert Muller from Univ. Michigan about rosy reds, very, very interesting, the hybrids from rosy reds mentioned are according to the artikle from P. promelas, P. notatus, and P vigilax.

I will definitely try next spring to breed with the young from my rosy reds. But I do not expect much, we will see. When lucky I will catch some of the wild form of P. promelas ( may-be that is a hybrid as well ) with a bottle trap in the South of the Netherlands were they already form a wild population, regretted by nature conservationists in the Netherlands, but every fathead I catch out of the dutch waters must make them very happy.

I never regret I bought some of these fishes and breed with them, so interesting to watch them busy breeding, Next year I will take more time to watch the show in my tank.

Forgot to mention the title of the artikle: The mystery of the feeder fish, or who is Rosy red ? Bob Muller, From the Fall 2000, American Currents

Trying to make sure what I have are fatheads, when showing aggression, are fatheads the only minnow that appear dark showing two pale bars at the gills and dorsal fin? I'll probably post pictures later, need to ensure i'm trying to breed the correct minnow.

That would be interesting !, Thanks, Casper