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Tank mates for slender madtom


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#1 Guest_CorydoraLover_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:23 AM

yes I have a slender madtom, its in a 10 gallon tank right now.
I would like to buy a few ropefish and a black ghost knife fish for a 100 gallon tank, and I was wondering if I could put the madtom in there with them??
also some tips for the madtom would be nice. I feed it guppy fry, shrimp pellets and flake food.

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#2 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:56 AM

I would think that it would be ok to put the Madtom with those fish, though I'm not sure if all the fish will like the same water temp. The Madtom will handle warmer water, but prefers cooler temps than tropicals do. I don't think the madtom will be aggressive with the other fish. I have 2 species of Madtoms in my tank and they don't realy acknowledge other fish. I only see a problem if your madtom is much larger than the other fish, max size is 4-6inches.

My advice build it a cave to hid in. Or you can get a large rock and dig out under it. Madtoms like to stay hidden during the day. You may be bringing extra stress to it if it can't hid. Giving it some hiding places will all decrease the chance that it will be agressive towards other fish.

#3 Guest_CaptainCaveman_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 01:21 PM

In General, I don't think it's a good idea to mix tropical fish with temperate or cold water fish. Can the fish survive together? Yes for a time. You will need to makes quite a few caves as all the fish you want in the tank need caves especially rope fish and Black Ghost Knifes. One problem you may run into (depending on how big your madtoms are) is that black ghost kinfes get pretty big and will eat the mad toms if they will fit in their mouths (then again so will rope fish and they get to a pretty decent size too).

#4 Guest_CorydoraLover_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 06:40 PM

In General, I don't think it's a good idea to mix tropical fish with temperate or cold water fish. Can the fish survive together? Yes for a time. You will need to makes quite a few caves as all the fish you want in the tank need caves especially rope fish and Black Ghost Knifes. One problem you may run into (depending on how big your madtoms are) is that black ghost kinfes get pretty big and will eat the mad toms if they will fit in their mouths (then again so will rope fish and they get to a pretty decent size too).

The madtom is 6 inches. and the tank will be over 100 gallons. so really the fish will be find for a while but when one fish grows to big, then the madtom will need to be moved.
the person that caught the madtom was keeping it in 80 degrees F... but I slowly lowered the temperature to cold water when he gave the madtom to me.

#5 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 08:55 PM

In General, I don't think it's a good idea to mix tropical fish with temperate or cold water fish.

A lot of the fish sold as "tropical" actually do better at room temperatures. For example, I found when breeding swordtails that the females had a high death rate if kept at 80 degrees F. Even though the gestation time is over twice as long at 70 F, they were much healthier (none died, versus nearly half a dozen at the higher temperature). So swordtails are an example of fish sold as "tropical" but who appreciate much lower temperatures than you'd think. ... *thinks about it* ... Montezumae swords, too, come to think of it. If you try to keep them at 80 F they'd croak within the month. Their maximum healthy temperature is 70 at the most. Anyway, yeah, native fish are often quite compatible with fish from different parts of the world. That's something I think NANFA should advertise more. If more people know that they could easily keep a few native fish species along with their pet store ones, I bet it would increase our membership and the general level of interest in native fish.

#6 Guest_CaptainCaveman_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 10:13 PM

A lot of the fish sold as "tropical" actually do better at room temperatures. For example, I found when breeding swordtails that the females had a high death rate if kept at 80 degrees F. Even though the gestation time is over twice as long at 70 F, they were much healthier (none died, versus nearly half a dozen at the higher temperature). So swordtails are an example of fish sold as "tropical" but who appreciate much lower temperatures than you'd think. ... *thinks about it* ... Montezumae swords, too, come to think of it. If you try to keep them at 80 F they'd croak within the month. Their maximum healthy temperature is 70 at the most. Anyway, yeah, native fish are often quite compatible with fish from different parts of the world. That's something I think NANFA should advertise more. If more people know that they could easily keep a few native fish species along with their pet store ones, I bet it would increase our membership and the general level of interest in native fish.


While I agree that many temperate fish can tolerate warmer temperatures, I disagree it being a good idea. As an example, I can tolerate being in 100f and 90% humidity, but it doesn't mean I'm comfortable.

#7 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 07 February 2011 - 11:11 PM

While I agree that many temperate fish can tolerate warmer temperatures, I disagree it being a good idea. As an example, I can tolerate being in 100f and 90% humidity, but it doesn't mean I'm comfortable.

That's the point; a lot of "tropical" fish are actually more comfortable at the same temperatures we keep a lot of our native fish at. My Elassoma gilberti are at 69 degrees Fahrenheit, right now, the same temperature I keep my breeder swordtails at, even though a lot of livebearer breeders keep their fish at higher temps to decrease gestation time and increase fry production. I found that the increased temperatures stressed out and sometimes killed the mothers.

Anyway, I'm just trying to say that a sweeping generalization about tropical fish not being compatible with native fish because their temperature ranges don't overlap is too general to be correct in every case. Yes, some fish (like certain species of African rift lake cichlids) are very picky about their temperature staying at exactly 80 F. Others have ranges that overlap with the native fish we love.

The ecosystems we love are not necessarily beautiful, unique snowflakes. They have water parameters (salinity, pH, temperature) that overlap with other ecosystems in different parts of the world. There are fish swimming continents apart but basically in the same water, that if put in the same tank would both be able to feel at home.

Edit: oh yes, my point. I was trying to say that if you are looking for tank mates for your mad tom, look at the fish species who are found in places in the wild that have the same pH, hardness, temperature, and salinity. There are some interesting analogues that exist. For example, compare Dario dario with Elassoma gilberti. They're both one inch colorful egg laying slack water fish that live in dense vegetation. They occupy basically the same niche, but one does so in Asia and one lives in Florida. *nods*
I don't claim to be an expert in madtoms (I've never kept them or researched them), but I think that if you do your homework, you'll find a "tropical" fish or two that is compatible with them. Try something smaller than rope fish or knife fish. They do grow very large, and big fish eat small fish. Go for something that has the same maximum size as your mad tom.

Edited by EricaWieser, 07 February 2011 - 11:16 PM.


#8 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 08:19 AM

Good advice Erica. I put my 2cents in without knowing anything about the tropicals that were mentioned.

#9 Guest_EricaWieser_*

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 10:54 AM

I've been looking at the photos of your madtom and noticing that you asked for more general madtom advice and would like to say this:

1. Blackworms. California blackworms would be a great treat for your madtom. It would eat them and love it. Call your local fish stores and ask if any have them for sale. Mine has them for $1.25 a bag live, and also sells them frozen.
2. The terra cotta cave. I am reminded of my post just recently on a different topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...h__1#entry85596

... you could use a different cave design other than a flower pot on its side. The goal is to give the fish a hiding space they want to hang out inside where they can feel secure.

*Flower pot upside down with an entry hole: http://www.sydneycic...om/pot-cave.htm Terra cotta is brittle and sharp, so be careful.
*This is a second, more complicated but also nicer design using terra cotta: http://thefishcave.c.../diy_caves.html
*PVC pipe coated in first aquarium silicone and then gravel/sand: http://aquarium.shuru.com/
*This design is one of my favorites. You take a coconut and cut it in half, making a dome, and then cut an entrance hole into the dome: http://www.aquariuml...coration/87.asp
*Really beautiful slate cave: http://www.plantgeek...viewer.php?id=6


And it just wouldn't be a post from me without me mentioning that kitty litter makes an excellent substrate. I have it in my tank. Picture: http://gallery.nanfa...er/005.JPG.html
And here's a composition analysis of what's in it and why it's a good substrate to grow plants in: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html
It's also softer than gravel, so your madtom might enjoy sitting on it more. He might be comfortable enough to bury himself a little and maybe digging would improve the quality of his life. :)
Of course, I don't know much about madtoms. It could be they prefer burying themselves in gravel. Have you seen him digging around in the gravel much?

Edited by EricaWieser, 08 February 2011 - 11:02 AM.


#10 Guest_CorydoraLover_*

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 12:23 PM

I've been looking at the photos of your madtom and noticing that you asked for more general madtom advice and would like to say this:

1. Blackworms. California blackworms would be a great treat for your madtom. It would eat them and love it. Call your local fish stores and ask if any have them for sale. Mine has them for $1.25 a bag live, and also sells them frozen.
2. The terra cotta cave. I am reminded of my post just recently on a different topic: http://forum.nanfa.o...h__1#entry85596



And it just wouldn't be a post from me without me mentioning that kitty litter makes an excellent substrate. I have it in my tank. Picture: http://gallery.nanfa...er/005.JPG.html
And here's a composition analysis of what's in it and why it's a good substrate to grow plants in: http://www.thekrib.c...rate-jamie.html
It's also softer than gravel, so your madtom might enjoy sitting on it more. He might be comfortable enough to bury himself a little and maybe digging would improve the quality of his life. :)
Of course, I don't know much about madtoms. It could be they prefer burying themselves in gravel. Have you seen him digging around in the gravel much?

thanks for all the great info! yes he likes to dig around a lot, he keeps me up all night with the noise.
I'm moving him to a 55 gallon today with lots of gravel for him to do what ever.
The other fish in this tank are blind cave fish. there are lots of lava rock caves in there,

#11 Guest_CorydoraLover_*

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Posted 08 February 2011 - 12:28 PM

hey whats the laws on keeping this fish? I'm in missouri.
I just find it odd that a person I have never meet just came to my house and handed me the fish... ISN'T THAT ODD?!!

#12 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:55 PM

I don't know what the law is but it doesn't appear that the Slender Madtom is on the T&E in MO. The Neosho Madtom is. Are you 100% positive its a slender?

#13 Guest_jblaylock_*

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 09:57 PM

Also it may be digging to try to hide. Give it a cave or something to hide in.

#14 Guest_CorydoraLover_*

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:21 PM

I don't know what the law is but it doesn't appear that the Slender Madtom is on the T&E in MO. The Neosho Madtom is. Are you 100% positive its a slender?

I am 80% sure it is... I don't think its the Margined Madtom because its upper jaws doesn't overlap the under jaw.

the fish is from the missouri river

#15 Guest_CorydoraLover_*

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 01:25 PM

I bought a new Slender madtom!~ it's so cute.
its a dusky brown colored one. (same size as the other one)

its living happily with the original madtom I have in a 55 gallon tank. I'll post pics later.



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