I will make a thumbnail gallery on nanatives.com for more pics.
The alligator weed is established miles downstream also, but I noticed that regions of the stream that was shaded all day would not grow it.
Quick reconnaissance trip
Started by
Guest_mywan_*
, Apr 12 2011 10:00 PM
40 replies to this topic
#21
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 May 2011 - 05:42 PM
I went back today and got rained out, but not before some significant finds. I would have stayed but was afraid for the camera. I got some excellent pics of the red eyed 17 year cicada (Magicicada septendecim), which were out in mass. Got very good up close pics of a large rat snake, which found itself on some rocks out in the middle of the creek, and some excellent up close pics of a copperhead. The copperhead was on the bank but came in the water to check me out when I started walking toward it. Once it checked me out good it headed back for land. Weird. Also a pair of loggerhead musk turtles (Sternotherus minor), a box turtle (Terrapene carolina). The two good fish pics is more southern studfish and a darter. The only thing the keys fit for on this male darter in breeding colors is Speckled darter (Etheostoma stigmaeum). I have seen variations where the stripes were dots similar to this, but this is the first time I seen the spots as rings. The blue on the rather elongated snout is rather unusual to as id the tail.
I will make a thumbnail gallery on nanatives.com for more pics.
The alligator weed is established miles downstream also, but I noticed that regions of the stream that was shaded all day would not grow it.
I will make a thumbnail gallery on nanatives.com for more pics.
The alligator weed is established miles downstream also, but I noticed that regions of the stream that was shaded all day would not grow it.
#22
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 May 2011 - 05:56 PM
Well you seem to be right on the Nigronia and the Fiery Searcher. I will take a much closer look at the alligatorweed. It does not seem to be a major ecological problem for the creek, but I was watching for the issues it was supposed to be known for.Agree with Newts ID's on everything. The snails could also be Leptoxis, if not Elimia (both are in Pleuroceridae).
Black-wing bug in spiderweb looks like Nigronia, similar but smaller than dobsonfly.
Are you sure about alligatorweed in pic with dead shiner? I woulda guessed Justicia like the lower pic.
"beatle running everywhere with florescent green and black striped wing parts and a shiny reddish gold margin around the wings and midsection and above each eye" -- maybe Fiery Searcher, a groundbeetle
Thanks Newt. I did break some earlier today. I did not notice any noise from the runner I pulled from the bottom but did not really pay too much attention to its stringiness. It was not too difficult to break and basically hollow and the outer coating peeled down on the last part of the break. Even if it is alligatorweed, if it stays as behaved at it seems at the moment it is not so bad. I really hope it is Justicia.
#23
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 03 May 2011 - 07:37 PM
Here is a gallery of most of todays photos.
http://www.nanatives...May 3-2011.html
Here is a very beautiful copperhead I went to investigate as soon as I seen it.
Then when it noticed me it came into the water to investigate me.
Then got back out after checking me out.
But then I had to harass it for some more pics.
This rat snake I guess got caught in the current and climbed out on the little island.
I had to harass it for a photo op too, and it was not as laid back as the copperhead was. I guess it thought it had more to fear than the copperhead
Fun trip till I got rained out. The linked photos are full sized.
http://www.nanatives...May 3-2011.html
Here is a very beautiful copperhead I went to investigate as soon as I seen it.
Then when it noticed me it came into the water to investigate me.
Then got back out after checking me out.
But then I had to harass it for some more pics.
This rat snake I guess got caught in the current and climbed out on the little island.
I had to harass it for a photo op too, and it was not as laid back as the copperhead was. I guess it thought it had more to fear than the copperhead
Fun trip till I got rained out. The linked photos are full sized.
#24
Michael Wolfe
-
- Board of Directors
-
- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 03 May 2011 - 09:31 PM
...a darter. The only thing the keys fit for on this male darter in breeding colors is Speckled darter (Etheostoma stigmaeum). I have seen variations where the stripes were dots similar to this, but this is the first time I seen the spots as rings. The blue on the rather elongated snout is rather unusual to as id the tail.
I have never tried identifying darters from this angle... but Ithink I am going to disagree... speckled darters have the red band in the middle of their dorsal, not at the top... and I did not think their noses were that pointed... looks kinda like a greenbreast (E.jordani) to me... lots of our darters have that green/turquoise color on their throat and on the top and bottom of their caudal... even the ones we saw at Reinhardt... and the turquoise darters (which would not be up by you)... but I am going to go with greenbreast.
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#25
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:49 AM
I agree that there are significant incongruencies with the ID. But when I stepped though the ID keys step by step, even after allowing some variance in key feature counts, that is the only ID that can fit for any darter listed anywhere in the entire Conasauga river basin. Getting a good shot was difficult and on this one I got down on my knees and elbow in the water trying to get a better angle, but the current appeared to keep turning the fishes angle. None of the other specimens ever allowed an effective photo. I was not satisfied with the ID based on any of the general descriptions with photos, and seemed to differ wildly depending on which characteristics the most importance was placed on. I did not not consider the mid dorsal point, several features seemed out of whack. I am fairly sure I a pic of their spawn site also but cannot be certain.I have never tried identifying darters from this angle... but Ithink I am going to disagree... speckled darters have the red band in the middle of their dorsal, not at the top... and I did not think their noses were that pointed... looks kinda like a greenbreast (E.jordani) to me... lots of our darters have that green/turquoise color on their throat and on the top and bottom of their caudal... even the ones we saw at Reinhardt... and the turquoise darters (which would not be up by you)... but I am going to go with greenbreast.
On the species keys my ID boiled down to the the 6 "hourglass" dorsal saddles.
6b. Six saddles -- go to 8
8a. Dorsal saddles narrowed in middle forming an “hourglass” shape -- speckled darter
8b. Dorsal saddles squarish -- rock darter
The red rings also match the light green circular splotches seen on some speckled darter in place of the more usual vertical stripes. Like what is seen on the speckled darter on this page:
http://johno.myiglou...sh/darters.html
Pic link: http://johno.myiglou...sh/speckled.jpg
However, I do see on a search instances of greenbreast darters mimicking the "hourglass" dorsal saddles in varying numbers and degree and posses the fleshy lips needed to account for the light green lip parts. The light green lip coloration makes the snout look even pointier. You are highly likely correct.
#26
Michael Wolfe
-
- Board of Directors
-
- North Georgia, Oconee River Drainage
Posted 04 May 2011 - 03:41 PM
not trying to press a point but just to show what I was thinking about (had to search for this pic on my computer)...
this is a greenbreast from the Conasauga (picture taken about a year and a half ago).
I have no idea why this fish was so light (I mean I can guess a lot, like it was taken underwater so no black-bucket-syndrome, or since it was summer it was out of breeding hormones, etc... but just surprised to see this one so light)
usually they are darker... like this guy...
...either way they are somewhat saddled when looking from the side (again, I don't usually try to ID form the top so I may be missing something) and have a pointy nose, so that was what I thought I saw...
this is a greenbreast from the Conasauga (picture taken about a year and a half ago).
I have no idea why this fish was so light (I mean I can guess a lot, like it was taken underwater so no black-bucket-syndrome, or since it was summer it was out of breeding hormones, etc... but just surprised to see this one so light)
usually they are darker... like this guy...
...either way they are somewhat saddled when looking from the side (again, I don't usually try to ID form the top so I may be missing something) and have a pointy nose, so that was what I thought I saw...
Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing. - Benjamin Franklin
#27
Guest_Casper_*
Guest_Casper_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:42 PM
Im enjoying tagging along on your photo outings.
Pretty Copperhead. I fella here in Chattanooga died of "?" shock after being bitten by one recently. TWRA is all over his 3 buddies as they were keeping native snakes.
Hard to tell from a top shot but my guess is along with Michael's. Does not look like a Speckled to me at all. Nonetheless i admire and appreciate your photo trip journals of late.
If you poke your head underwater you would quickly tell a dif between Greenbreast and Speckled. Both cool darters.
You need to come up to VA.
Pretty Copperhead. I fella here in Chattanooga died of "?" shock after being bitten by one recently. TWRA is all over his 3 buddies as they were keeping native snakes.
Hard to tell from a top shot but my guess is along with Michael's. Does not look like a Speckled to me at all. Nonetheless i admire and appreciate your photo trip journals of late.
If you poke your head underwater you would quickly tell a dif between Greenbreast and Speckled. Both cool darters.
You need to come up to VA.
#28
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:30 PM
I went back today intending to go back down the same section as yesterday, but stopped to check out another access point and spent the whole day exploring it. This region of creek had extensive sand beds and barges, and snails were very difficult to find. What few I seen were mature specimens. The bottom areas with stoned had a think brown algae making the rocks slippery. The green alga was fairly rare but existed in a few sporadic areas also. The riverweed and mosses were also minimal but there were some notable well matured stands flowing out from the rocks they were attached to. The most numerous fish was f. stellifer with lots of schools, but the mature ones in this area had shiny black fin tips, especially the tail fin.
I got some new pics of the same species of darter that was in question before but has the light blue stripes rather than the red rings on its sides. Perhaps we can establish a firm ID, but I am still reading speckled darter in both the males and females. Also with the good side pics here the red band is in the middle of the dorsal fin and have the same green pointy nose. They would school with the f. stellifer and stand out when they ran with the school a ways but the darters would sink to the bottom when they stopped and twist their body as if to look back at what was going on. Here is the best color phased pic.
Here is apparently a female of the same species.
This I am guessing is a green sunfish (Lepomis cyanellus).
This I think is the same species as the sick fish was. I could not get a good lighting angle in that pool.
Here is a pair of redeye bass in the same pool as the last pic.
And a really cool crayfish.
These I need some help identifying. They were in fairly large schools feeding like crazy on off those rocks. Even when you spooked them they would merely move a few feet and continue feeding. I only seen two schools doing this which probably consisted of 500 or so fairly tightly knit.
I got some new pics of the same species of darter that was in question before but has the light blue stripes rather than the red rings on its sides. Perhaps we can establish a firm ID, but I am still reading speckled darter in both the males and females. Also with the good side pics here the red band is in the middle of the dorsal fin and have the same green pointy nose. They would school with the f. stellifer and stand out when they ran with the school a ways but the darters would sink to the bottom when they stopped and twist their body as if to look back at what was going on. Here is the best color phased pic.
Here is apparently a female of the same species.
This I am guessing is a green sunfish (Lepomis cyanellus).
This I think is the same species as the sick fish was. I could not get a good lighting angle in that pool.
Here is a pair of redeye bass in the same pool as the last pic.
And a really cool crayfish.
These I need some help identifying. They were in fairly large schools feeding like crazy on off those rocks. Even when you spooked them they would merely move a few feet and continue feeding. I only seen two schools doing this which probably consisted of 500 or so fairly tightly knit.
#29
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:54 PM
I also seen something I had never seen before. A box turtle foraging and feeding underwater. That drowned worm, same kind seen in the mountains, in its mouth was picked up and eaten while underwater. It seemed incapable of seeing me above the water. After taking several photos it came toward me and when it stuck its head out of the water freaked and withdrew.
I also seen quiet a few loggerhead musk turtles, which I suspect goes a long ways toward explaining the lack of snails, but snails also seemed to vary with the sand substrate content. This one appears to be blind in one eye.
When I got several miles downstream it ran into a confluence that formed a mini oxbow U. I took a left upstream, which was a bit smaller, but the sand substrate got so deep with few stones it made it really hard to walk. Two red tailed hawks got really upset at my presents, and with the difficulty with my bad ankle this is were I headed back. A right would have 'eventually' brought me out were I was yesterday.
I also seen quiet a few loggerhead musk turtles, which I suspect goes a long ways toward explaining the lack of snails, but snails also seemed to vary with the sand substrate content. This one appears to be blind in one eye.
When I got several miles downstream it ran into a confluence that formed a mini oxbow U. I took a left upstream, which was a bit smaller, but the sand substrate got so deep with few stones it made it really hard to walk. Two red tailed hawks got really upset at my presents, and with the difficulty with my bad ankle this is were I headed back. A right would have 'eventually' brought me out were I was yesterday.
#30
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:57 PM
I do not know about today, but as of 1976 there had never been a recorded case of someone actually dying from the venom of a copperhead. There are a few people who die every year from the sight of a non-poisonous snake though.Im enjoying tagging along on your photo outings.
Pretty Copperhead. I fella here in Chattanooga died of "?" shock after being bitten by one recently. TWRA is all over his 3 buddies as they were keeping native snakes.
Hard to tell from a top shot but my guess is along with Michael's. Does not look like a Speckled to me at all. Nonetheless i admire and appreciate your photo trip journals of late.
If you poke your head underwater you would quickly tell a dif between Greenbreast and Speckled. Both cool darters.
You need to come up to VA.
#32
Guest_Casper_*
Guest_Casper_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 07:51 PM
Top shot looks Speckled with the irridescent sides... so may very well be.
They have a triangular wedgy head shape. If you get a broadside would settle it.
Antipalegic (?) shock.
I dont know the exact term, but i took it as a reaction, in much the same way as some people react to bee stings. Supposedily he died quick but there were several versions of the account.
BTW... no reports of fish falls this last few days. Plenty of destruction though in all directions.
They have a triangular wedgy head shape. If you get a broadside would settle it.
Antipalegic (?) shock.
I dont know the exact term, but i took it as a reaction, in much the same way as some people react to bee stings. Supposedily he died quick but there were several versions of the account.
BTW... no reports of fish falls this last few days. Plenty of destruction though in all directions.
#33
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:02 PM
It is called anaphylactic shock and about 1500 people die in the US from it every year. If that is what killed him it could look rather dramatic for the witnesses and can be a fairly quick but not immediate death. Even in a worst case the venom of a copperhead should take a fair amount of time just to set in. I have seen the effects of copperhead bites, and even though it is not that poisonous it can be a really nasty extended healing time. The anti-venom used for snakes bites is actually more dangerous than the copperhead venom.
That reminds me, I ran across a black racer today also, which was soaking up some sun on a path. They are sometimes a blast to chase. When I was a kid one came in my barn. When I chased it would run through through the weeds right in front of me and suddenly stop in a gully, causing me to over shoot its position. I would turn around and the chase was on again. I dove at it twice and grabbed its body and it just kept going like I was not holding it. Several times I lost it and went back to the barn only to turn around and see it behind me again. Maybe there is something to them chasing people? It was a much shinier and darker black than this one but black and blue racers are known to interbreed were their habitat overlaps. This one was also more nervous than the one in Texas years ago.
That reminds me, I ran across a black racer today also, which was soaking up some sun on a path. They are sometimes a blast to chase. When I was a kid one came in my barn. When I chased it would run through through the weeds right in front of me and suddenly stop in a gully, causing me to over shoot its position. I would turn around and the chase was on again. I dove at it twice and grabbed its body and it just kept going like I was not holding it. Several times I lost it and went back to the barn only to turn around and see it behind me again. Maybe there is something to them chasing people? It was a much shinier and darker black than this one but black and blue racers are known to interbreed were their habitat overlaps. This one was also more nervous than the one in Texas years ago.
#36
Guest_Casper_*
Guest_Casper_*
-
- Guests
Posted 04 May 2011 - 10:14 PM
Yes...
That is the word. Thanks for the enhancement. Seems like the fella had been bitten before, but as i said there were different "accounts" coming out as the days and individuals and charges came forward.
Here is a fun snake for you. He was really poised! His eyes were glazed over with a soon to shed skin. Im not sure what kind of snake it is? He had some white on his belly, and white between his scales, perhaps due to the soon shed. ? I enjoyed your Black Racer chase accounts. Run Mywan Run! Im not sure if i could tell the difference between a Racer and a Black Snake but all the Black Snakes i have seen are FAST and quick to bite if you tease them. Once when i was camping longterm in FL i had a black snake coming through the campsite and i could NOT chase him away. He was quite regular. If i took a light switch to him he would hold his ground and even approach me. There were also lots of Pygmy Rattlers and big Water Mocs about so i finally figured he was a good guy to keep around. I only killed one snake while there, a pygmy rattler because he was lounging by my car which i slept in for many months. Did not want to step outside barefoot one dark evening or morning and find 2 fangmarks on my ankle. Rats pulled him down a hole to eat. Tree Rats were my friends there, they lived in the Scrub Oaks canopy over my campsite and were fun to watch play. They would take food from my fingers eventually.
I think your fish mass is a herd of Stonerollers. They graze on algae covered rocks. Flick and shine silver in the sunlight while feeding. Easy to ID long distance because of this. You should see some mustached males with tubercules horny heads digging pits, though that activity may be over in your area. Mine in the cement pond are still very active and already have dozens of fry in the viewing partition below the waterfall. I watch them live on FISH TV.
In the wild you will see clean gravel being deep pitted and white "mustaches / lips" on the big males. Very impressive and industrious critters. They should not be looked down upon. They survive where others cant.
I will check my buckets over the next few days for Tornado transports. Mostly multi colored insulation along fence rows and shingle shreds in the yards but in several directions big sheet metal tangles are wrapped in tall torn trees, houses gone from concrete slabs. Im headed back out tomorrow to Trenton, GA a community devastated. In just this area we had over 15 Tornados, several F3 and 4's. Massive destruction in every direction. If there was any fish transporting this would have been the time and i do think it can and has occured. Lots of weird phenomena in Tornados.
That is the word. Thanks for the enhancement. Seems like the fella had been bitten before, but as i said there were different "accounts" coming out as the days and individuals and charges came forward.
Here is a fun snake for you. He was really poised! His eyes were glazed over with a soon to shed skin. Im not sure what kind of snake it is? He had some white on his belly, and white between his scales, perhaps due to the soon shed. ? I enjoyed your Black Racer chase accounts. Run Mywan Run! Im not sure if i could tell the difference between a Racer and a Black Snake but all the Black Snakes i have seen are FAST and quick to bite if you tease them. Once when i was camping longterm in FL i had a black snake coming through the campsite and i could NOT chase him away. He was quite regular. If i took a light switch to him he would hold his ground and even approach me. There were also lots of Pygmy Rattlers and big Water Mocs about so i finally figured he was a good guy to keep around. I only killed one snake while there, a pygmy rattler because he was lounging by my car which i slept in for many months. Did not want to step outside barefoot one dark evening or morning and find 2 fangmarks on my ankle. Rats pulled him down a hole to eat. Tree Rats were my friends there, they lived in the Scrub Oaks canopy over my campsite and were fun to watch play. They would take food from my fingers eventually.
I think your fish mass is a herd of Stonerollers. They graze on algae covered rocks. Flick and shine silver in the sunlight while feeding. Easy to ID long distance because of this. You should see some mustached males with tubercules horny heads digging pits, though that activity may be over in your area. Mine in the cement pond are still very active and already have dozens of fry in the viewing partition below the waterfall. I watch them live on FISH TV.
In the wild you will see clean gravel being deep pitted and white "mustaches / lips" on the big males. Very impressive and industrious critters. They should not be looked down upon. They survive where others cant.
I will check my buckets over the next few days for Tornado transports. Mostly multi colored insulation along fence rows and shingle shreds in the yards but in several directions big sheet metal tangles are wrapped in tall torn trees, houses gone from concrete slabs. Im headed back out tomorrow to Trenton, GA a community devastated. In just this area we had over 15 Tornados, several F3 and 4's. Massive destruction in every direction. If there was any fish transporting this would have been the time and i do think it can and has occured. Lots of weird phenomena in Tornados.
Attached Images
#38
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:15 AM
Your snake in the pic is a black rat snake, the same kind as in my pic from under the copperhead. The white is actually its skin color covered in black scales. It is the most common snake in my yard, and has even crawled in my house through an open front door a couple of times. I am guessing you were in the Florida panhandle or very near it if that pic was taken in Florida. Rat snakes are not especially fast but racers are speed demons, up to 10 MPH and climb nearly as fast. They look similar but if you look closer at your rat snake pic you will see very small scale ridges right down the center of the scales. It is also showing a very typical rat snake personality. Racers do not have these scale ridges. Also, the various rat snakes will intermix.
It is hard to say based on aggressiveness which snake it was, but I think it might have been a coachwhip (Masticophis flagellum) (think masochist in place of Masticophis) if it would not leave, but possibly a racer. Coachwhips can have an attitude from hell but are harmless outside the wise tales about the hanging from tree and whipping to death anybody that walks under them. Their aggressiveness does not appear to be based on fear or intent to harm, rather an attitude of, "nobody pushes me around!", especially if provoked which only seems to make them mad. The general aggressiveness of a snake varies greatly even within a given species. Copperheads just do not seem concerned until you mess with them, then their attitude is "wrong move buddy". A few rat snakes you can pick up wild out of the woods wrap it around your neck and give it a ride home. Most time they are defensively highly aggressive, but settle down quickly if you know how to handle them. This was the personality of the one in my pic, and I would bet the one in your pic. About half of those will repeat the defensive aggressiveness after being left alone in a cage for a short while. Others remain defensively aggressive no matter what you do and in all circumstances. I have never seen a rat snake that was aggressive for any reason other than defense. They just want to scare you away out of their own fear. Rat snakes are good climbers to, sometimes seen sunning well up big oak trees, but do their climbing very slowly and methodically, unlike racers or coachwhips. Each species has a personality range with significant variations among individuals. Often I can recognize a species just by the personality. I need to learn to do that with fish.
It is hard to say based on aggressiveness which snake it was, but I think it might have been a coachwhip (Masticophis flagellum) (think masochist in place of Masticophis) if it would not leave, but possibly a racer. Coachwhips can have an attitude from hell but are harmless outside the wise tales about the hanging from tree and whipping to death anybody that walks under them. Their aggressiveness does not appear to be based on fear or intent to harm, rather an attitude of, "nobody pushes me around!", especially if provoked which only seems to make them mad. The general aggressiveness of a snake varies greatly even within a given species. Copperheads just do not seem concerned until you mess with them, then their attitude is "wrong move buddy". A few rat snakes you can pick up wild out of the woods wrap it around your neck and give it a ride home. Most time they are defensively highly aggressive, but settle down quickly if you know how to handle them. This was the personality of the one in my pic, and I would bet the one in your pic. About half of those will repeat the defensive aggressiveness after being left alone in a cage for a short while. Others remain defensively aggressive no matter what you do and in all circumstances. I have never seen a rat snake that was aggressive for any reason other than defense. They just want to scare you away out of their own fear. Rat snakes are good climbers to, sometimes seen sunning well up big oak trees, but do their climbing very slowly and methodically, unlike racers or coachwhips. Each species has a personality range with significant variations among individuals. Often I can recognize a species just by the personality. I need to learn to do that with fish.
#40
Guest_mywan_*
Guest_mywan_*
-
- Guests
Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:40 PM
The bad angle of the original photo was a significant problem, giving the impression of color bands in the wrong location, and the unusual color morph only made things more difficult. I learned something. I really need a polarizer for my camera. I missed many good shots just because I had to change angles to reduce glare.I'm a day late here but that is a nice speckled darter picture... no doubt about that one any more...
Reply to this topic
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
NANFA Youtube Channel 
